Removing play between lower/upper

Yes, its possible a tight receiver develops wobble over time.

Many people on forums and blogs say that it does not affect accuracy and its just part of the AR15 platform and that its designed that way for ease of pushing out the pins and field striping.

At first it bothered me too. I have tried ear plug, accu wedge, shims, tape, and oversized pins.
You have to figure out if wobble is due to loose front or rear. If its loose at the front, an accu wedge will do nothing (which is what happened in my case).

I was able to fix my wobble with a shim at the front take down pin, but such a shim would come off every time i took off the upper, and it was a pain in the ass to line up and install again so I eventually stopped using it.

Tape on the upper and lower worked, but it also bothered me that theres strips of tape there, so I eventually took it off as well.

As for accuracy wise, I can only speak for myself, but I noticed no difference in accuracy with my upper and lower being really tight VS having some wobble. But in my case Im shooting surplus bulk ammo with a red dot sight. If you are shooting with FGMM and a 5-25 scope, maybe you will notice some benefit with super tight receivers, but like someone above already claimed, rifles with loose receivers can and do shoot sub MOA.

When I was first looking at accu wedges, I saw a youtube comment saying its completely unnecessary and that "a fool and his money are soon parted". After buying an accuwedge and a pack of receiver shims, I really do feel like im a fool. I get it if you are bothered by the wobble, but after you address it in one way or another, you are left with a receiver thats harder to close and under more tension(which might bother some people more than the wobble does).
 
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" Because once you load the bipod you take the slop out of the upper. "
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Why are you shooting an AR-15 with a bipod?
Shouldn't you be using a bolt-gun for that?

I use my AR-15 for things like IPSC and 3-gun.
I don't have time for the slop to settle itself down. I need to be able to point and shoot.
 
Dexter Morgan said:
Why are you shooting an AR-15 with a bipod?
Shouldn't you be using a bolt-gun for that?

I use my AR-15 for things like IPSC and 3-gun.
I don't have time for the slop to settle itself down. I need to be able to point and shoot.
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Then the benefit of using an accuwedge in your case is psychological. Whether wobble between upper and lower affects accuracy may be debatable but what doesn’t seem to be debatable is the fact that the effects are pretty minor...if you are using your ar for things like ipsc and 3gun, and you need to be able to “point and shoot”, you’re not exactly talking about precision shooting. There’s nothing wrong with that of course, and anything that makes you a better shooter and costs less than $10 ain’t all bad ;)

timothy.jpg
 
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To the guys who are having success with these devices meant to reduce/eliminate wobble, could you guys share your methods and results?

For example:
Loose: 4MOA
With Accu wedge: 3MOA

Or
Loose: 2 seconds, 3 A zone hits, 2 C zone.
With reciever shim: 2 seconds, 5 A zone hits.

This info should benefit the OP and everyone looking for methods to reduce/ eliminate reciever wobble.
 
Tiker said:
To the guys who are having success with these devices meant to reduce/eliminate wobble, could you guys share your methods and results?

For example:
Loose: 4MOA
With Accu wedge: 3MOA

Or
Loose: 2 seconds, 3 A zone hits, 2 C zone.
With reciever shim: 2 seconds, 5 A zone hits.

This info should benefit the OP and everyone looking for methods to reduce/ eliminate reciever wobble.
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If that’s your real world data you’ve personally gathered, I can’t help but question what more was at play then a hunk of rubber mashed between the upper and lower.
Factory load lot difference? SD difference on hand loads? Rounds used? Weather conditions? Time of year? Did the shooter take a poop or snap one off before or after? Was this done same day or at different times?

I’ve met more qualified shooters that have said the accu-hunk is nothing more than a gimmick, myself included but if someone out there has gathered real world data removing all other variables and proven that the accu-junk makes a measurable improvement in the accuracy of a rifle then I think you’d be on to something.
 
FoxAlpha said:
If that’s your real world data you’ve personally gathered, I can’t help but question what more was at play then a hunk of rubber mashed between the upper and lower.
Factory load lot difference? SD difference on hand loads? Rounds used? Weather conditions? Time of year? Did the shooter take a poop or snap one off before or after? Was this done same day or at different times?
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Tiker already said he/she didn’t notice a difference at all with wobble or without. I think Tiker was just providing examples of the kind of info that might help the op. I would agree with you though, if anyone suggested those kinds of improvements the scepticism would be pretty high.
 
FoxAlpha said:
If that’s your real world data you’ve personally gathered, I can’t help but question what more was at play then a hunk of rubber mashed between the upper and lower.
Factory load lot difference? SD difference on hand loads? Rounds used? Weather conditions? Time of year? Did the shooter take a poop or snap one off before or after? Was this done same day or at different times?

I’ve met more qualified shooters that have said the accu-hunk is nothing more than a gimmick, myself included but if someone out there has gathered real world data removing all other variables and proven that the accu-junk makes a measurable improvement in the accuracy of a rifle then I think you’d be on to something.
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No, i just made up those numbers as an example lol. But yea, stats like that are exactly what im looking for as it would help the OP and everyone else to make informed purchase decisions.
 
Everything that houses accuracy in a bolt rifle is also encompassed by the upper receiver but for some reason bedding the action and properly torquing the screws seems to have a dramatic effect. How is an ar upper rattling around any different than any other rifles action rattling around? It should be even more dramatic being that the hammer strikes the firing pin in the bolt, which will then jar the entire upper to some degree. While a bolt action rifles striker is encompassed in the bolt.

Maybe it's unnoticeable shooting offhand with a red dot using cheap ammo shooting 5moa.. but for a precision semi auto..

Otherwise we'd be seeing sub moa out of any and all semi autos using match grade barrels. But we don't.. so what other factors could be at play? Hmm.
 
Aero Precision provides a spring-loaded tensioning device in the Rear of the Lower Receiver that pushes up against the Rear Locking Lug of the Upper Receiver to eliminate any Upper/Lower slop. It is a simple but excellent system that provides repeatable tension between the two Receiver halves. More manufacturers should adopt the Aero Lower Receiver design.
 
Dexter Morgan said:
It's not psychological. It's mechanical.

If my upper is wobbling; Then my optic is also wobbling.
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If your upper is wobbling you might want to try holding it properly.

walks with loud stick said:
Everything that houses accuracy in a bolt rifle is also encompassed by the upper receiver but for some reason bedding the action and properly torquing the screws seems to have a dramatic effect. How is an ar upper rattling around any different than any other rifles action rattling around? It should be even more dramatic being that the hammer strikes the firing pin in the bolt, which will then jar the entire upper to some degree. While a bolt action rifles striker is encompassed in the bolt.

Maybe it's unnoticeable shooting offhand with a red dot using cheap ammo shooting 5moa.. but for a precision semi auto..

Otherwise we'd be seeing sub moa out of any and all semi autos using match grade barrels. But we don't.. so what other factors could be at play? Hmm.
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A bolt action and a semi auto aren’t the same. Show us results that proves your theory.
 
" If your upper is wobbling you might want to try holding it properly. "
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Yup. I can certainly use my left arm to steady the upper (and optic) before every shot.

But of course that wastes time on every target, isn't very consistent, and ends up giving me lots of penalties for shots missed.

Or I can put in a $4 part; And never have to worry about it.

Considering how much money my optic cost; I would have to be insane not to add a $4 part to keep it from wobbling.
 
cr5 said:
Exactly,
If the little bit of slop annoys you then waste money and time trying to remove it but the rifle won't be any more accurate afterwards.

It has nothing to do with quality control or it being a cheap AR, it's the way the rifles were designed and almost all AR have some wiggle. Even my PWS that was over $2000 had some play between the upper and lower.
By the way, that PWS would shoot sub moa with it's factory 12 inch barrel and non free floated factory quadrail. So just like the upper/lower slop myth the free floated barrel thing is typically misinterpreted as to it's true advantage.
The free floating of the barrel may improve accuracy a tiny bit but the accuracy improvement mostly comes from installing a quality barrel. Free floating an AR or other semi auto is actually mostly impossible since the gas system is always dangling off the barrel but we're freeing it up as much as possible. Where most of the accuracy improvement comes from "free floating" is the consistency increase by taking away the forces of a bipod or sandbag, or your arm from the barrel.
Do we also want to talk about the other stupid myths out there like how people think long barrels are more accurate than short barrels?
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Actually "Free Floating" your barrel improves accuracy a whole lot, it depends on what type of shooting you are doing.

Free floating allows you to apply your sling properly and usually sling tension has far more to do with shot to shot accuracy and any other variable. Consistent sling tension is probably the most important single thing you can do to improve accuracy, free floating your barrel allows you to remove that sling tension directly from the barrel and put it somewhere so it has no or very little effect.

Years ago the U.S. Marine Corps came up with a free float tube that uses regular handguard covers, as the competition rules state that the rifle must have the same external appearance as the issue service rifle. The sling swivel is removed from the front sight housing and placed on the forward edge of the tube, in almost the same position as the normal sling swivel.

ht tps://www.whiteoakarmament.com/service-rifle-float-tube-assembly.html

When shooting a full 20" AR with iron sights out to 1,000 yards, this allows you to get extremely good shot to shot accuracy.

As to the initial question about the "Slop" between the upper and lower, snug is good tight is not good. It is far more important to ensure that the barrel is fitted and torqued properly into the upper receiver. Next time you have your AR apart, drop a little oil into the upper receiver where the barrel is inserted and after letting it sit for a few minutes, put the barrel in a padded vice with the lower and bolt removed and wiggle the upper receiver a little, if your barrel is properly fitted and torqued you will se no movement, if not you will see oil move.

Scott
 
Kratos said:
If your upper is wobbling you might want to try holding it properly.



A bolt action and a semi auto aren’t the same. Show us results that proves your theory.
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still wondering how the principals are not the same. How does a wobbling barrel/bolt on a semi have now effect while it does on a bolt action. I'm truly interested in theory behind this.

Again, why won't a sloppy ar with a top Tier match barrel shoot as well as a bolt gun wit the same, because I've seen you state the accuracy is all in the barrel.

Also once again I'll ask for you to provide some counter evidence that isn't youtube videos starring guys that say uhh, and ummm more than turdo, along with numerous other obvious factors that demolish any credibility of their tests.

Again, no one will ever claim that the rattle increases accuracy. That would be absurd. So it woild only be logical that it falls somewhere between zero impact to drastic impact. The degree of which will have numerous factors.

Will you notice a change if you're shooting ceap ammo, with a crap barrel, with crappy optics, freehand in the wind? No.


If you are using quality ammunition, And equipment, it woild certainly seem plausible that removing play with increase accuracy potential.

Otherwise one could resurrect any worn out oval pinholed ar and drop a match grade barrel in it and print bugholes.

It doesn't happen. The accuracy is lost somewhere.

Another thing to remember is just by removing freeplay rattling, doesn't mean there isn't movement while under higher loads. Sticking a piece of chewed gum between upper and lower may remove the audible rattle, but not motion produced by the energy creatednwhen discharging.
This may be a factor in minimal to no detectable accuracy increase with the wedge. It doesnt neccesarilly mean there isn't a more effective means at eliminating play, that is apparent on the target.
 
The upper receiver, the barrel, and the optic are one piece attached to each other with no movement.
Having the lower able to move when you're not leaning on the rifle will make no difference. When in firing position (when shooting for accuracy) the rifle should be loaded with some pressure pushing it into the bipod or sandbag, this should push the upper and lower to where the play is at the end of it's travel. If you do it the same every time the play will not effect accuracy.

As for the free float makes it more accurate, well I've seen non free floated AR's with good barrels outshoot a free floated rifle with a cheap barrel. The free floating may increase accuracy a little but the average person not competing will likely not notice anything different. What they will notice is less change in POI if they hold the rifle differently every time. It will make the rifle more consistent when the shooter is not shooting consistently more than it will actually increase the accuracy of the rifle. More consistent is more accurate but it's the free floating hiding bad shooting techniques more than it's the free floating making the rifle more accurate.
Accuracy in an AR comes more from the barrel and ammunition quality and compatibility than it comes from freefloating the barrel.

The rattle is an annoyance to some but it isn't a negative when it comes to shooting performance. Almost every rifle that has an upper/lower design using pins to hold them together has some rattle. Even my Swiss Arms had some wiggle between the upper/lower, it's normal and nothing to worry about unless your pin holes are so worn that it causing excessive movement.
 
" The upper receiver, the barrel, and the optic are one piece attached to each other with no movement "
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Yes. That is correct.

However. My eyeball (via cheekweld) is attached to the lower receiver.

Therefore; If there is wobble between the upper and lower; Then there is wobble between my optic and my eyeball.
 
Dexter Morgan said:
Yes. That is correct.

However. My eyeball (via cheekweld) is attached to the lower receiver.

Therefore; If there is wobble between the upper and lower; Then there is wobble between my optic and my eyeball.
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I’m not sure you understand the argument. The rifle is not inaccurate in your example, your shooting mechanics/skill cause inaccuracy (improper/ irregular hold on the rifle, not holding the same at each shot). You take all the parts you have and put them into a tight receiver set and they will shoot with the same accuracy. Because that $4 part isn’t fixing the rifle, it’s compensating for a skill you lack when shooting it (not trying to sound elitist or rude, it’s just fact. I lack a lot of skill in this respect, and many others as well). The accuwedge allows you to not have to hold the rifle properly for accurate shooting.

I’ve gutted many rifles and put the same parts onto different receivers at different levels of play. If shot for accuracy there is no difference. I wish I had recorded my results, but if you look around many have done this, recorded the results with no perceptible difference in accuracy.

Maybe I wasn’t explaining it properly. Maybe this explaination still doesn’t get it across. Maybe I’m wrong. But countless people have concluded what I have, and as people actually change to receivers without play they realize it makes no difference.
 
I’m not sure you understand the argument. The rifle is not inaccurate in your example, your shooting mechanics/skill cause inaccuracy (improper/ irregular hold on the rifle, not holding the same at each shot). You take all the parts you have and put them into a tight receiver set and they will shoot with the same accuracy. Because that $4 part isn’t fixing the rifle, it’s compensating for a skill you lack when shooting it (not trying to sound elitist or rude, it’s just fact. I lack a lot of skill in this respect, and many others as well). The accuwedge allows you to not have to hold the rifle properly for accurate shooting.

I’ve gutted many rifles and put the same parts onto different receivers at different levels of play. If shot for accuracy there is no difference. I wish I had recorded my results, but if you look around many have done this, recorded the results with no perceptible difference in accuracy.

Maybe I wasn’t explaining it properly. Maybe this explaination still doesn’t get it across. Maybe I’m wrong. But countless people have concluded what I have, and as people actually change to receivers without play they realize it makes no difference
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Yes. I understand your argument completely.
It's not wrong. But it's completely irrelevant.

I don't care how accurately the barrel can shoot when held in a vise. It means nothing to me.
I only care about how accurately I can shoot the rifle.

My rifle has a really nice aftermarket pistol grip and stock.
They don't make the rifle more accurate; But the better ergonomics allow me to shoot the rifle more accurately.

The expensive optic I have mounted doesn't make the rifle more accurate.
But it does allow me to shoot the gun more accurately.

And of course;

Removing the wobble between my optic and my eyeball does not make the rifle more accurate.
But it does allow me to shoot the gun more accurately.
 
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