Garand oprod help

C

C.308

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Hamilton
So I noticed my new Garand is difficult to load (At least I think it is...it's my first, but it's taking a ridiculous amount of effort)

I'll try to keep this short and to the point.

The oprod is marked 7.62 but seems to have about a 1/2" extension. I'm guessing it's been converted for use in a 30-06.
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The oprod spring is 19.5". The spring only goes into the oprod as far as the addition.

View attachment 245312View attachment 245313

I think what is happening is I got a 30-06 length oprod spring, with an oprod that is externally the same as a 30-06 but internally is shorter like some 7.62x51 are. (I know not all used a shorter oprod, but some Italian ones did, no?) I suspect the extra spring pressure is making it difficult to push the follower down while loading a clip.

The action, while smooth as butter, seems to be harder to work than it should be. but I have nothing to compare it to other than my m305 and mini 14.

Before I go hunting for a spring or chopping mine, does it sound like I'm on the right track? What is the OAL of a 30-06 spring? How much shorter for .308? Just the length of the addition?

Do I need to just stop being a wimp and push harder?
 
Multiple Questions for you.... and I am not a expert .. so this is internet advice .. use at your own risk

Are you using garand safe ammo ?

How many rounds have you fired from this gun ?

Spring length can vary minimum uncompressed 19.0" to 19-1/2 to 20.25- 20-1/2 and some can vary , free of kinks and bends ... So you spring length is correct for a normal rifle
Small end in guide rod .. large end toward muzzle

How Does you rifle shoot ?

Are you using grease on spring ? Grease on other moving parts (white grease) .... nothing on firing pin

Are there any rub points ?

Does it lock back after last round ? ??? ... Does it have a adjustable gas plug ?

Garands require a bit of force to load the clip ... if you are using the correct ammo / no rub points / and it locks back on last round / and you have shot 100 plus rounds through it / and it is lubed correctly....and it works .... Do nothing

if you have done all of the above and it still does not lock back .. then take it a expert
 
I have an Italian 308 Garand.

The OEM main spring supplied with the parts kit I built it off of was 17.75" long uncompressed.

I was having problems with live rounds flying out of the clip as the gun cycled, and after determining the clips were fine I concluded that my main spring was too weak and not applying enough pressure on the follower. So I purchased a Wolff spring kit for the Garand, which comes with a 30-06 spec main spring. The main spring was too long at full compression for the action to cycle all the way to the rear, so it required a bit of trimming.

I did not measure it beforehand but can say I took off approximately .5 inches. Uncompressed length is now 20". So if you have a 308 oprod your 19.5" spring should be short enough for everything to work fine. Push a little harder.

Definitely avoid commercial ammo - I can't speak for everyone but I will say even with the new spring my gun cycles reliably on a 75% powder charge (33gr of IMR 4895 with 147gr campro). I would never run a full power load in it!
 
first pull rifle out of stock wipe off grease install bolt and oprod no spring you don't need feed part in receiver either tilt the rifle forward bolt should close tilt it back bolt should open if that's ok then put it in the stock and try again if it passes tilt test in stock we know that's ok

when you put a full clip into the garand 5 out 6 garands I have I need to help the oprod feed the first round I give the oprod handle a smack forward the other 7 rounds feed as they should

I had one that would not feed so I ended up checking gas cylinder and oprod pistion size turned out after swapping know good parts my gas cylinder was oversize

another it was the follower arm it was NOS but had a slight bend I swapped it out and all was good other times its the spring too weak or too strong I don't have a .308 garand so im not too sure about that spring
 
I actually havent shot it. I was trying to practice loading it with practice rounds just so I'm not fumbling at the range.

Backwards spring...lol maybe that's the problem. I didnt realize...thanks. I'll fix that and try again.

The bolt locks back no problem. It as the original plug (until I replace it with an adjustible one) Everything seems to function as it should otherwise. When I watch videos the action seems to move much easier when worked by hand.

I was told this was built on misc. parts and put together by a gunsmith fwiw. So the original owner may not have realized and just provided the spring. It is not overly difficult to install so it may not have raised any flags.

What I've learned is the Italian way to convert to 7.62 was to shorten the barrel and oprod and spring. Some of the short oprods were converted back to 30-06 length when they made it back to north America as parts. but the 7.62 spring would still need to be used due to the inside length of the oprod. Its a 1/2 solid piece of metal added to the end of the oprod (not hollow) which the spring does not enter.

The follower seems to push on that spring as you load it so it seems it it's too long it would be too much tension and wont let the clip all the way in. I need to check if the coils contact each other before the follower bottoms out.

When I say it's difficult... I should be able to hold the charging handle back and push a clip in with my thumb. I have to pretty much put it on my bench and push down with all my force. Maybe not the same thing but I've spent lots of time loading m14s and sks's with stripper clips and have no difficulty. This is a whole other level.
 
Thanks for all the replies. And thanks for the measurements Jager.

Tilt test was all good. The rifle is clean and greased. I'm going to check those coils for contact when I get home today. I will update the thread.
 
you see the shoulder on the part that the spring slips on? the small end of the spring slips onto that up to the shoulder should be pretty tight
 
C.308 said:
The bolt locks back no problem.
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The bolt must be able to cycle fully with a clip in the gun. The insertion of the clip further compresses the main spring. Like I said, mine operates properly with a 20" spring...so you should be ok.

I should be able to hold the charging handle back and push a clip in with my thumb.
Click to expand...

The oprod/charging handle should be locked to the rear when inserting a clip. When the clip bottoms out the action locks it in and releases the charging handle. Are you saying you are manually holding the charging handle to the rear while loading?
 
No it will lock back. I meant I'm just holding it as a precaution to prevent it from snapping it closed onto my thumb of I make a mistake. I know that it wont let the bolt fly forward until I release pressure on the follower, but maybe I watched too many youtube videos warning about "garand thumb" lol.

It does lock back on it's own when I pull the action back and I dont mean its resting on the follower. It is all the way back and locked. I just see how others load their m1s and I definitely cant do it that easily.
 
by all means check your spring. I find loading mine it is not difficult to insert and press down the enblock but until you develop the knack it seems really clumsy and worrying about getting pinched by the bolt doesn't help. and by the way it does hurt. Also looking at your pictures your oprod seems wrong I am under the impression when the rod was shortened it was at the area between the bolt slot and the bend were it goes over the stock. I don't think the extension on the end of it is actually the right way to lengthen a .308 rod to fit a .30 06 action.
 
wce323078 said:
Also looking at your pictures your oprod seems wrong I am under the impression when the rod was shortened it was at the area between the bolt slot and the bend were it goes over the stock. I don't think the extension on the end of it is actually the right way to lengthen a .308 rod to fit a .30 06 action.
Click to expand...

No, they were shortened by lopping a bit off the end. Much simpler and stronger than what you described. Simply shorten and solder in a piston.

His also has the correct way to lengthen back to 3006 spec.
 
Well after correcting the spring direction (duh!) I still had the same issue. The follower would not go down all the way, seemingly due to the spring compressing completely. When I checked it out with the stock removed and the trigger installed in the rifle I could see as I was pushing down on the follower, about 2/3 of the way down the follower arm and spring guide were actually trying to force the oprod forward. To me this must be because the spring could not compress anymore.

I decided to try chopping 1/2" off the spring. It will now allow me to insert a loaded clip. It appears to require simiar effort to what I've seen demonstrated by others I have seen. The action feels much better to operate. It's still fairly firm but not excessive like before.

I figured since a normal 30-06 spring seemed to be somewhere between 19 and 20", and jager got a 17.75" with his italian 7.62x51, I had a bit of wiggle room to experiment. Mine is now 19". We will see how it shoots but for now I'm happy and I can practice loading her up.

Thanks for all the help and advice. I thought this was a unique situation worth Sharing in case someone else finds themselves with a converted 7.62 oprod, and has difficulty loading clips.
 
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