Safety and Accuracy

Ganderite

Ganderite

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Farm south of North Bay
Here are two tips presented at the Reloading Clinic.

Attendees were half virgins and newbies, and half old pros looking for accuracy info.

Safety
I have 5 blown up guns. A revolver I blew up myself with a double charge of powder, and 4 rifles that have been given to me as training aids.

Every single rifle was blown up because of rifle ammo loaded with pistol ball powder. Ball powders all look similar. If you have both types of ball powder, sh!t happens.

If you don’t load handgun ammo, by all means use ball rifle powder when appropriate. It is very good for ammo you load directly from the powder thrower. No need to measure each charge.

But, if you do load handgun ammo, ball power and flattened ball power are very had to avoid, since so many pistol powders are ball. So use ball pistol powder and for your rifle, stick to extruded (stick) powder. You will never, ever confuse stick rifle powder and ball powder.

Rife Match Ammo
ADI in Australia (the folks that make Varget) switched from making their ammo with Berdan primers to using Boxer primers, about 20 years ago. They immediately were flooded with complaints about a drop in accuracy.

They did some research, and their first conclusion was that Berdan primers produced better ignition. They then researched to find out why.

They discovered that it was related to the size of the flash hole. Berdan primed cases use smaller flash holes than Boxer. ADI found there was a direct correlation to Extreme velocity differences with flash holes size. The bigger the hole, the bigger the velocity variation. And vice versa.

So DON’T run a drill bit through your case flash holes to ‘uniform” them. You would be making your brass worse for accuracy.

Lapua (and maybe some others) make some brass with a smaller flash hole. An ordinary decapper pin won’t fit the hole. They use a small hole to improve accuracy. Buy this kind of brass if it is available for your caliber.
 
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Hmm. I am not an accuracy shooter, not because I choose so, but because I have to be standing inside the barn to gain a reasonable chance of hitting it! :p

I read with interest Ganderite's contributions. The above info about powder is very serious. The matter of flash holes is a new one to me. Good stuff, and thanks for sharing! :cool:
 
Powder choice safety!

What are the mechanics behind pistol powders being able to burst rifle barrels?

The three pistol powders I have so far are: Trail Boss, easy to identify because of the donut shape, perhaps this is not a "ball powder"?
Titegroup: seems to be a very dense powder "a little goes a long way" Flat round dot shaped. Very risky?
Unique: seems to fill more volume per weight but shaped very similar in appearance to Titegroup.

IMR 3031 is my only Rifle powder: Looks like tiny little pencil leads.
 
You are doing what I suggest. Using extruded rifle powder. No pistol powder I know looks like 3031.

The danger of using ball pistol and rifle powder is that they look similar. You could sit down and assume that the powder in the thrower is 748 (a ball rifle powder) when in fact it is some kind of ball pistol powder.

48 gr of pistol powder will blow up most rifles on the first shot.

The other danger is that you assume the powder in the thrower is 748 and dump the powder back into the 748 can. Next time you load from that can--- KABOOM.

If you can happily load rifle with only extruded powder (there are lots of them), then you have a safer bench. One less thing to go wrong.
 
That might not be bad advice for the neophyte reloader who's trying to get so many things sorted out in their head at once. Or maybe for people who know they are prone to distractions or bad at multitasking.
It's a bit like saying no one should ever use titegroup and other fast powders that fill less than half a case because of the possibility of double charging.

Good advice for the inexperienced or abundantly cautious but maybe a bit of an extreme recommendation for many organized methodical reloaders.
 
One thing that I've been doing with powder is: one type of powder out on the bench at any given time. When I'm done reloading anything in the powder measure or trickler goes back into the container, and back into the cupboard before another one comes out. So far, I've been able to avoid a powder mix-up.
 
OldDude said:
One thing that I've been doing with powder is: one type of powder out on the bench at any given time. When I'm done reloading anything in the powder measure or trickler goes back into the container, and back into the cupboard before another one comes out. So far, I've been able to avoid a powder mix-up.
Click to expand...

So simple even a caveman can do it!

If you're mixing powders you're probably too unorganized/messy (or old, lol).
 
vagrantviking said:
That might not be bad advice for the neophyte reloader who's trying to get so many things sorted out in their head at once. Or maybe for people who know they are prone to distractions or bad at multitasking.
It's a bit like saying no one should ever use titegroup and other fast powders that fill less than half a case because of the possibility of double charging.

Good advice for the inexperienced or abundantly cautious but maybe a bit of an extreme recommendation for many organized methodical reloaders.
Click to expand...

Careful. That sounds like "It can't happen to me!"

I am trying to share information about a problem that has blown up a lot of rifles. One of the guys was a senior lab tech from one of the big bulletmakers, working on 270 load development for their loading manual. He blew a Rem 700 receiver into 27 pieces.

His can of 760 was contaminated with pistol powder.

See my sig line below, about learning from the experience of others.
 
Some very good advice for all reloaders here from Ganderite. Stuff happens, especially when you let your guard down.

City home was only two blocks from the Legion where you held your reloading clinic, and would have liked to attend and pick up some pointers from you, but was unfortunately tied up all wknd. Hopefully next time.
 
Longwalker said:
Thanks for sharing! I would have liked to attend your clinic but sadly, we are much too far apart.
Click to expand...

There were 24 guys there, all asking questions. No room for more, anyway.

But if we do it again, you are all welcome. We could book the Skydome...

If you want a copy of the 40 page binder of info that was discussed in class, EMT me $5.00 peelreg@gmail.com and give me your name and email address.
 
It's a valid method of trying to avoid mistakes. Certainly not arguing that. At the same time I'm not going to rule out using entire classes of powder.

I know I'm fallible too. Split the side of an NAA Minimaster trying to fire off some very dud prone ammo when I knew I should have tossed it.

Double check the powder level in all the cases anytime you use small charges of fast powder and double check the label and load data everytime you transfer powder to or from a measure or container.
 
Ganderite said:
Careful. That sounds like "It can't happen to me!"

I am trying to share information about a problem that has blown up a lot of rifles. One of the guys was a senior lab tech from one of the big bulletmakers, working on 270 load development for their loading manual. He blew a Rem 700 receiver into 27 pieces.

His can of 760 was contaminated with pistol powder.

See my sig line below, about learning from the experience of others.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the pointers..I have only been reloading for a year so always appreciate the pointers.
 
Ganderite said:
Here are two tips presented at the Reloading Clinic.

Attendees were half virgins and newbies, and half old pros looking for accuracy info.

Safety
I have 5 blown up guns. A revolver I blew up myself with a double charge of powder, and 4 rifles that have been given to me as training aids.

Every single rifle was blown up because of rifle ammo loaded with pistol ball powder. Ball powders all look similar. If you have both types of ball powder, sh!t happens.

If you don’t load handgun ammo, by all means use ball rifle powder when appropriate. It is very good for ammo you load directly from the powder thrower. No need to measure each charge.

But, if you do load handgun ammo, ball power and flattened ball power are very had to avoid, since so many pistol powders are ball. So use ball pistol powder and for your rifle, stick to extruded (stick) powder. You will never, ever confuse stick rifle powder and ball powder.

Rife Match Ammo
ADI in Australia (the folks that make Varget) switched from making their ammo with Berdan primers to using Boxer primers, about 20 years ago. They immediately were flooded with complaints about a drop in accuracy.

They did some research, and their first conclusion was that Berdan primers produced better ignition. They then researched to find out why.

They discovered that it was related to the size of the flash hole. Berdan primed cases use smaller flash holes than Boxer. ADI found there was a direct correlation to Extreme velocity differences with flash holes size. The bigger the hole, the bigger the velocity variation. And vice versa.

So DON’T run a drill bit through your case flash holes to ‘uniform” them. You would be making your brass worse for accuracy.

Lapua (and maybe some others) make some brass with a smaller flash hole. An ordinary decapper pin won’t fit the hole. They use a small hole to improve accuracy. Buy this kind of brass if it is available for your caliber.
Click to expand...

Re Safety: I bought a blown up K31 that was done in by pistol powder just to inspect it in person.

Re: Match ammo:
One of the reasons I have kept all my GP11 brass. But my supply of RWS Berdan primers is getting low.
 
OldDude said:
One thing that I've been doing with powder is: one type of powder out on the bench at any given time. When I'm done reloading anything in the powder measure or trickler goes back into the container, and back into the cupboard before another one comes out. So far, I've been able to avoid a powder mix-up.
Click to expand...
The key words here are, 'so far'
 
but I got a screaming deal on a 8lb jug of H380 when WSS closed up :)

I mostly use IMR and have 4 or 5 different powders, double extruded base I think they call it.

I have also used a large variety of flake and ball powders, and reload for a wide variety of firearms, big and small.

my safety is only one powder out on the bench at a time, when I'm done with it the powder measure and trickler get dumped back into the container and all the powder is cleaned up and put away before I start with a new powder.
 
woodchopper said:
but I got a screaming deal on a 8lb jug of H380 when WSS closed up :)

I mostly use IMR and have 4 or 5 different powders, double extruded base I think they call it.

I have also used a large variety of flake and ball powders, and reload for a wide variety of firearms, big and small.

my safety is only one powder out on the bench at a time, when I'm done with it the powder measure and trickler get dumped back into the container and all the powder is cleaned up and put away before I start with a new powder.
Click to expand...

This is what I try to do, too. But sometimes I leave powder in the thrower because I am doing a big project. That's when I sometimes come back to the thrower and wonder what the powder is.

Dump the powder each time and only the one can on the bench is the safe way to do it. Otherwise, Murphy will pay a visit.
 
I'm reminded of a memorable day when shooting 210 gr cast bullets over a light load of SR-4759 in my .30/06 M-17 Enfield. I don't have much faith in cheap Chronys after comparing mine inline with my Oehler, but the readings were close enough to make the point. Typically, there'd be a pleasing little bang, the rifle would nudge my shoulder, and the Chrony would read about 1800 fps. Midway through the box of ammo there was a very loud report, a rude shove on my shoulder typical more of a .300 magnum than a cast bullet .30/06 load, and the chrony read 2850! Oh my.

I had to beat the bolt open with a piece of 2X4, the primer was in the bottom of the magazine, and the primer pocket had opened to the diameter of the lettering on the case head. The lettering appeared in mirror image in the bolt face. The fellow I was shooting with happened to be a gunsmith and his only words were, you lucky SOB! No damage to the rifle, the scope or me. That's what a double load of fast burning powder can do when everything goes right, it also could have blinded me and wrecked my rifle had things gone wrong. What's worse is I remembered loading that round because I had been interrupted, never allow a distraction to compromise your safety when handloading. When I returned to loading, what I should have done was check to see if I had already charged the case, but I didn't; that's a mistake I've never repeated.
 
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