Any Black Powder Builders Here?

Glenfilthie

Glenfilthie

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I have fallen in love with the stench and grime of black powder. (Please shoot those things downwind though, boys!)

:):puke:

I have also fallen in love the the traditional rifles and have been playing with a cheap 'spaghetti plains rifle' for a couple years. It is a good enough rifle; but it doesn't cut the mustard. I want to build my own rifle and I have seen some very interesting kits over at Track Of The Wolf.

Have any of you fellows built any of these rifles? Any tips for a newbie builder? I am probably going to order one of those kits as soon as I can decide which one I want.

A penny for your thoughts?
 
TOTW sells quality products and is a good company with which to do business. Keep in mind that a modern percussion gun is subject to registration.
You will need to decide the type of gun you want to assemble.
Or, you could consider a scratch build. It isn't really all that difficult, and is a real learning experience. A plain halfstocked rifle with a parallel sided barrel is a pretty basic firearm.
 
Thanks guys. I want to go with a flinter but I have no real experience with them. Do any of you guys shoot the spark tossers? Can they reach out and kill at 100 yards with a patched round ball?
 
I had an Austin and Halleck flinter in .50 cal that was very accurate to 100 yards, but the round ball does not have much steam left at 100 yards. Deer can and have been shot at 100 yards many times, but shot placement is very important. I would suggest you get at least a .50 and preferably a .54 with a good round ball barrel. I liked the flinter, but prefer the cap lock rifle because it is more reliable in poor weather.
 
TOW are very eazy to deal with. I have built a tulle and MT rifle just buy the blue print and work slowly. I have killed several deer at 100 yards with 50 cal round ball but would recommend .54 or .58 if most of you hunting will be done at that range. Good luck on your build. Check out www.muzzleloadingforum.com there are lots of good builders on that sight that are more then willing to help walk you through the process.
 
....last winter i completed a north west trade musket in 62 cal (smooth bore)...challenging as I was new to this type of project...piercing holes and tapping threads etc...mine came from NorthStarWest. I suggest you check their site, all parts made in USA as firearm quality parts. I fired it at the range and manage to place 3 shots our of 3 on a human silhouette type of pistol target...My next one would possibly come from Track of the Wolf as their reputation is solid. I would buy again from Northstarwest but they do not have the French fusil i am looking for and Track has a few models to choose from.
Good luck!!


Glenfilthie said:
I have fallen in love with the stench and grime of black powder. (Please shoot those things downwind though, boys!)

:):puke:

I have also fallen in love the the traditional rifles and have been playing with a cheap 'spaghetti plains rifle' for a couple years. It is a good enough rifle; but it doesn't cut the mustard. I want to build my own rifle and I have seen some very interesting kits over at Track Of The Wolf.

Have any of you fellows built any of these rifles? Any tips for a newbie builder? I am probably going to order one of those kits as soon as I can decide which one I want.

A penny for your thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
After looking at a few websites, but based mainly on personal recommendation from my buddy Mike who's has built 4 guns and rifles, I ordered a kit from Pecatonica Long Rifle.
If you're interested in accuracy, buy the best barrel you can afford, Rice, Colerain or Getz make the better barrels, but if you want the best get an Ed Rayl barrel, and I would definately buy a swamped barrel for the best balance.
The heart of a flinter is the lock, again buy the best you can afford like Siler or L&R.
Get a good book on gunbuilding, Mike has loaned me a couple of books called "Recreating The American Longrifle",and "The Art of building The Pennsylvania Long rifle" which are more than adequate.
Have you decided what you want to build ?
Cheers nessy.
 
Thanks for that link to the forum RT. I signed up but my account hasn't been activated yet. It looks really interesting.

Jacques, I think I saw your fine rifle posted on another thread, did I not? That was a fine looking trade musket anyone could be proud of. I hope to do as well.

Nessy, could I prevail upon you for an opinion? Here is where I am at: I have an old Mauser 98 with iron sights that I had hunted with for years. Offhand, I can print groups between 4~6" all day long. I want a flinter that can do that too. Is this possible? I want to shoot the patched round ball, preferably a .54 in a barrel with a slow twist rate.

This is the animal I am looking at for the first build:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(2i...s/partList.aspx?catID=13&subID=77&styleID=283

I need to do some reading before I buy and the books you have listed come strongly recommended from the sources I have. (If you want to sell your books, Nessy, I would be happy to buy them from you...otherwise I will order them up from Track of the Wolf).

I am worried about inlays and inletting though...how much will I have to do? I would really like to get some of those elegant inlays on my rifle but would want to be good at it before I went after a fine gun stock. My goal is to eventually make as much of my own crap as possible: the powder horns, the possibles bag, the measures, etc.

So little time, and so much to learn....
 
I think part of the equation is where are you hunting? If you are somewhere like southern Alberta, where if your dog runs away, you can see it for 3 days, then shooting deer at 100 yds with a muzzle loader is reasonable. You can make a good shot on the animal, have it run 100 yds before dropping and still find it. Here on the Island, in many places you should be thinking more in terms of 50 yards because if the deer runs more than a very short distance, you may not find it.
In terms of accuracy, while the gun is probably capable of 4 - 5" at 100 yards, it is unusual to find someone who can actually shoot that well, offhand with iron sights. You also need to think of the gun more like a bow and arrow in the sense that the bullet drills a hole rather than the large wound channel of a modern rifle.
Relative to inlays, you can leave the escutions and patchbox off until you feel comfortable about inletting them. They are more decoration than functional.
One suggestion is that if you are drilling and tapping holes, make sure you have some number drills for drilling and do your tapping in the drill press using a point mounted in the chuck to support the upper end of the tap wrench so that the tap is not wandering around as you run it in. For drilling through holes such as the tang screw and for the pins that secure the barrel, balance the gun on a point where the hole comes out with the point centered on the drill bit. Also drill 1/2 way from both sides rather than all the way from one side.
Just some thoughts anyhow

cheers mooncoon
 
Have you seen this one? http://www.longrifles-pr.com/bedford.shtml
Or Jim Chambers http://www.flintlocks.com/rifles01.htm
Another good website to check out http://www.americanlongrifles.com/
A lot of good gun builders on there, Jim Chambers, Don Getz, Taylor Sapergia, hang out there.
I had a .54 Green Mtn barrel on a Hawken, it was OK, but I couldn't get those kind of groups with it. On the other hand I have an Ed Rayl barrel that printed a 4 1/2" group at 200yds :eek:
I notice the Goodien barrels are only made up yo 50 cal ? I agree with you, definately a 54 cal would be the best bore for hunting.
Cheers nessy.
 
i have a lefthand flint fullstock hawken .62 cal. rice barrel, built by taylor sapergia from prince george, probably the best black powder biulder in b.c, i use 100 grs 2ffg goex and a .610 round ball , it stops deer very suddenly, wade
 
and this is the one I am looking at...

Indeed I have posted a few pic of my NW trade gun, I am quite proud of this project...was stressful but successful in the end. The owner of Northstarwest guided me through the critical steps via emails...his main advise was that any error you do can be corrected,,,this de dramatise/traumatise my feeling toward this type of project where you have to drill and tap with a certain precision...
The one you are looking at has indeed a lot of inletting...here is the one I am looking at:
http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(lv...LEID=289&PARTNUM=KIT-TULLE-FUSIL-DE-CHASSE-44
Note the choice of cal and barrel..smooth or rifled...minimal inletting...

If it is your first one you may want to have a coach of some sort to guide you at times...like drilling the trigger guard, stock and tang all at once can be tricky if you want to the two half drilling to meet straight in line...lots of mental rehersal to ensure the procedure and home made jig is right.

Forgot to mention on previous post that the 3 shots on the silhouette tgt were at 50 meters.

Good luck



Glenfilthie said:
Thanks for that link to the forum RT. I signed up but my account hasn't been activated yet. It looks really interesting.

Jacques, I think I saw your fine rifle posted on another thread, did I not? That was a fine looking trade musket anyone could be proud of. I hope to do as well.

Nessy, could I prevail upon you for an opinion? Here is where I am at: I have an old Mauser 98 with iron sights that I had hunted with for years. Offhand, I can print groups between 4~6" all day long. I want a flinter that can do that too. Is this possible? I want to shoot the patched round ball, preferably a .54 in a barrel with a slow twist rate.

This is the animal I am looking at for the first build:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(2i...s/partList.aspx?catID=13&subID=77&styleID=283

I need to do some reading before I buy and the books you have listed come strongly recommended from the sources I have. (If you want to sell your books, Nessy, I would be happy to buy them from you...otherwise I will order them up from Track of the Wolf).

I am worried about inlays and inletting though...how much will I have to do? I would really like to get some of those elegant inlays on my rifle but would want to be good at it before I went after a fine gun stock. My goal is to eventually make as much of my own crap as possible: the powder horns, the possibles bag, the measures, etc.

So little time, and so much to learn....
Click to expand...
 
Jacques, I don't see a rear sight on that one you posted a link to..

I am trying to rend some DVD's on building through Smartflix. I dunno if my order got through or not...
 
A smoothbore fusil would not originally have had a rear sight. One could certainly be added, for either smoothbore or rifled versions.
 
What is a rear sight???

Your eye is the rear sight I imagine...sort of shotgun approach...I will try my flinters on Sat morning at the Stitsville Range (Ottawa area). Will let you know the results if I have chance to try at 100 meters...shooting with the cross stick for support....My 50cal T/C Hawken used to hit pie plate tgt at 100 ...will see what smoothbore flinter can do...
Cheers
J


Glenfilthie said:
Jacques, I don't see a rear sight on that one you posted a link to..

I am trying to rend some DVD's on building through Smartflix. I dunno if my order got through or not...
Click to expand...
 
Range results....

Glenfilthie said:
I personally would really appreciate a range report JT.
Click to expand...

Well this was a humbling exercise...I fired my 1690 French Tulles (from Loyalist Arms) 69 cal smoothbore, 70gr 3f; sitting with crossstick
25m, 5 shot string was 5.5 inches with 3 best shots within3 inches.
50m, 3 shots within a 11inches circle

Same sequences with my NW Trade gun, 62 cal smoth bore
25m, 5 shots string within 3 inches with 3 best within 2 inches, Best string
50m, 5 shots within 14 inches radius...humbling

see pic for the 25m strings

http://s157.photobucket.com/albums/t76/jacques1952/?action=view&current=PICT5774.jpg

Riflings were a good invention!...I could likely tighten my smooth bore groops by playing with patch thickness and powder charge...until then I will not venture at 100m with these muskets.

Cheers
 
I know how you feel Jacques. It looks like you are doing the same thing I do at 100: you get a respectable group going, but a few shots just 'go somewhere' as if they had a mind of their own.

Do you post on the other black powder forum Jacques? One of the musket geeks there was getting 3" groups at 100 if I recall correctly. Those guys are seem to know their stuff over there and make for some excellent reading.

You will get that front stuffer shooting well eventually.
 
humbling but not disappointing...

Glenfilthie said:
I know how you feel Jacques. It looks like you are doing the same thing I do at 100: you get a respectable group going, but a few shots just 'go somewhere' as if they had a mind of their own.

Do you post on the other black powder forum Jacques? One of the musket geeks there was getting 3" groups at 100 if I recall correctly. Those guys are seem to know their stuff over there and make for some excellent reading.

You will get that front stuffer shooting well eventually.
Click to expand...

For smooth bore shooting I am quite satisfied...If these results would have been with a rifled barrel I would have ground for disappointment. I can get 6 inch group easy at 100M with my 50cal T/C hawkens (rifled)...but will never hope for the same with a smooth bore...although, the fun is in trying...
The folllowing site is also interesting:
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/fusionbb/index.php

Personnally I doubdt the 3 inch group @ 100 is with a smooth bore flinter...with a rifled BP gun; no problem.

cheers
J
 
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