School Me on AR-15 Lowers (C71)

Whonnock Boy

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Hello GN,

I have been reading off and on about the possibilities of C71 throwing a wrench into AR-15 ownership which has led me to possibly purchasing one or two lowers just in case. They "might" take them away, they "might" not. They "might" grandfather them, they might not. That said, am I understanding this correctly? Do I still have time? Looking at Aero Precision, stripped lower receivers, Gen 2 (different colors). Should I look at two different configurations, if I can find them (sources)?

In advance, thanks for the input. Cheers....
 
Get an AR or at least a stripped lower. They can be found cheaply at site sponsors or even an entry grade AR cheaply enough. Then help fight C71 every way you can. Send emails and spread the word to every person you know....even if they don't own firearms !!!
 
You do understand that they 'might' do anything at any point in time and there is nothing you can do? Literally all it takes is a OIC and poof anything they want they can declare prohibited or restricted.
 
Completely understand, and that's why it is my understanding that maybe my best course is to make a minimal investment as somewhat of an insurance policy to hopefully secure my ability to own an AR in the future.

You do understand that they 'might' do anything at any point in time and there is nothing you can do? Literally all it takes is a OIC and poof anything they want they can declare prohibited or restricted.
 
Completely understand, and that's why it is my understanding that maybe my best course is to make a minimal investment as somewhat of an insurance policy to hopefully secure my ability to own an AR in the future.

Recommendation - buy a complete rifle, such as the SW MPII which are cheap ($660 ish). If there is any such classification change, then you will have that. If you are not able to get a complete rifle, get a lower receiver. I only recommend the full rifle, because this government is full on retard when it comes to gun legislation, and so I would not be surprised if they tried to create separate classifications for lowers versus rifles in an attempt to strangle the number of AR-15 owners. At this point nothing has been said about AR15s, so it really is up to you
 
It is possible that the AR15 will be up on the chopping block eventually. Owning one doesn't guarantee anything, but if they go the same route at the CZ858/Swiss Arms rifles, it will at least allow you to own and shoot one.

Though if you don't currently own an AR, I would go buy a complete rifle (Or build one) and enjoy the thing. Can't do much with a stripped lower. Pick up a S&W M&P Sport II, or a Radical Firearms RF-15, or a Norinco M4. Tenda has free shipping over $300, and cheap ammo too :D
 
You realize the more of us gets these kind of firearms #### even a stripped lower. The less financially appealling it is for the government to try and screw us? Because thats potentially one more payout. Or one more potential lawsuit... more money and resources dumped into trying to possibly recover/confiscate another restricted "firearm".

Stop being afraid of the gov.
 
I had the same concern.. so I bought an Aero Precision lower with the intent to just keep it in the safe as is - but then I decided to get a few more parts, then more and within 3 weeks I had a finished AR and I frikin love it! so much fun at the range and whatever future BS comes down from our overlords at least I'm in now. Go for it!
 
Completely understand, and that's why it is my understanding that maybe my best course is to make a minimal investment as somewhat of an insurance policy to hopefully secure my ability to own an AR in the future.

Here is the thing. First, C71 has absolutely nothing to do with ARs. All of the hysteria over ARs getting banned has been around since the early 90s. It can get prohibited at any time. It might never be prohibited. Any firearm can be prohibited by OIC at any time. Section 12.8 of the firearms pretty much guarantees that any firearm prohibited by OIC would be eligible for grandfathering, and thankfully the C71 doesn't change that. Unfortunately, OICs can be published with virtually no warning, and based on the wording in 12.8 you need to have owned one before the OICs come into force.

Second, every registration certificate carries the condition that certain changes to the firearm need to be reported. Notably, any change to a frame or receiver that makes it a functional firearm. The CFO does not have to approve such changes, and in prescribing AR15 receivers to be prohibited, the government can also specifically mention that any firearms registered as receiver only converted to full firearms will not be eligible for continued grandfathering. So depending on how devious any future government wants to be, its quite possible that owning a receiver when they get banned will only grandfather you for owning a receiver.

Bottom line, if you want a whole rifle, buy a whole rifle.

It is possible that the AR15 will be up on the chopping block eventually. Owning one doesn't guarantee anything, but if they go the same route at the CZ858/Swiss Arms rifles, it will at least allow you to own and shoot one.

Owning one almost certainly guarantees that you will have some skin in the game and be able to challenge the governments decision, join a class action lawsuit, and be eligible for any grandfathering that is offered.

Not owning one virtually guarantees that you will never be able to legally own one after they are banned.

Thats not to say I think a ban is likely, and I certainly don't think people need to start panic buying an AR to get IBTL.

You realize the more of us gets these kind of firearms #### even a stripped lower. The less financially appealling it is for the government to try and screw us? Because thats potentially one more payout. Or one more potential lawsuit... more money and resources dumped into trying to possibly recover/confiscate another restricted "firearm".

Stop being afraid of the gov.

Yes, the more people with skin in the game the better, but there is virtually no financial costs associated to the government based on owners. At least none they will admit to. The Liberal government will never offer compensation for prohibited firearms. The more owners there, the LESS likely the government will offer compensation. Its really easy to compensate one owner. 50,000+ like with the AR, never going to happen.

Votes, well thats a cost benefit analysis. Banning ARs negatively affects what, 100,000 people at most? How many of those will the liberal assume would never have voted liberal anyways? What if there are a million fence sitting voters that the Liberals can Woo away from the NDP with an AR ban? With political calculus like that, its a wonder they aren't banned already. Really should make you wonder why they aren't banned already.

As for lawsuits, it only takes one affected owner to lawyer up and fight it. Hopefully the gun orgs would dig deep in to their shallow war chests to get behind such a court case.

10/22 magazine court case has gone where exactly in two years? Of all the guns banned by RCMP fiat in the last 10 years, how many times have the gun orgs got involved in court cases?
If C71 goes through, it will be interesting to see how many of the ~15,000 owners try to fight it, or how many will complain loudly and then comply like good little vassals, or quietly not comply without making any fuss at all.
 
With the recent events and all the gossip floating around regarding Trudeau, Goodale, and the looming firearms report, I just purchased an M&P.

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I am in the same boat I want to be in the good fight but don't have time to shoot, picked a cheap pistol and ar. More people the better.
 
So I purchased a stripped lower and I've built the whole lower itself but I haven't got the spare cash right now to get the upper.
At what point do I register a change to the receiver? is it now or once I have the upper in my possession?
 
So I purchased a stripped lower and I've built the whole lower itself but I haven't got the spare cash right now to get the upper.
At what point do I register a change to the receiver? is it now or once I have the upper in my possession?


IIRC, the wording in the FA refers to being capable of discharging a round. Whether or not that is interpreted to mean a complete rifle - probably. When I built my AR, they asked what length barrel was installed when I called to make the change.
Things may have chnaged now; a quick??? phone call to the CFC would probably be your best bet. Then again, the answer might depend on who you get on the phone.
 
IIRC, the wording in the FA refers to being capable of discharging a round. Whether or not that is interpreted to mean a complete rifle - probably. When I built my AR, they asked what length barrel was installed when I called to make the change.
Things may have chnaged now; a quick??? phone call to the CFC would probably be your best bet. Then again, the answer might depend on who you get on the phone.

Thanks
 
So I purchased a stripped lower and I've built the whole lower itself but I haven't got the spare cash right now to get the upper.
At what point do I register a change to the receiver? is it now or once I have the upper in my possession?

The Firearms Act, Criminal Code, and the Canadian Firearms Program did not develop the current rules or operational practices to address the reality you describe. You could call them for an opinion, but you'd have the same amount of luck getting the right answer consulting tea leaves or a bag of old chicken bones.

In the business web services when you register a receiver it asks you to indicate if its a receiver-only, or a firearm (as in whole firearm). If you put receiver-only, many of the data fields get closed out as N/A. If you put firearm, then it asks you the action type, (semi or full-auto or pump, etc), the barrel length, the caliber, the magazine capacity, etc. With a full assembled lower, but with no upper, you can answer some, but not all of those questions.

Note, for the sake of being painfully specific, there are several separate requirements to report to the Registrar which may or may not result in a change of registration.

First, you have to report any modification that results in a change of classification. Its an open question whether the CFP thinks going from Restricted REceiver only to Restricted Firearm is a change in CLASS, or simply an update to the registration records. In any event, once you install an upper, you will clearly trigger this requirement, regardless of whether you intend the installation to be permanent or not.

Second, you have to report any modification that is intended to be permanent that changes the TYPE, ACTION, caliber or gauge. The TYPE, ie handgun, vs rifle, is determined by the furniture, typically the stock. A full assembled lower has a stock. Second, the ACTION, IE Single, semi or full, is determined by the LPK, which a fully assembled lower receiver has. So regardless of whether or not you have actually finished the firearm, those modifications need to be reported, if intended to be permanent, or if still in place after 30 days.

In either case, if the gun is ever seized fully assembled, the onus is on the crown to prove that you completed the assembled firearm more than 30 days ago. This will be impossible for them to prove with your help.

That said, several court rulings have determined that a firearm temporarily (undefined period of time) disassembled for maintenance, cleaning, inspection whatever, is still a WHOLE firearm, and people have been convicted for firearms offences that required an accused to be in possession of a whole firearm, despite the fact that the firearm was disassembled, and in some cases even broken.

Once you own all the pieces, and put them together, you have made a whole firearm. Simply separating the upper and lower will not necessarily count, or be viewed as, removing a modification to reset the 30 day notification period. The crown could argue, and easily convince a judge, that the firearm was not "un modified" but was merely disassembled (confused yet?), and rely on precedent already established to claim that its still a whole firearm, and you still have only that initial 30 days to report.

Bottom line, if you want to play it safe, you should hand in your PAL now. Complying with the BS is a mugs game. But to the letter, you should already be calling the Registrar to to tell them modifications you have made. At the end of the day there is no benefit to you whatsoever in having a RECEIVER-ONLY registration. NONE. And don't let them use the excuse that their database isn't configured to describe your firearm accurately. That crappy database is their problem, the law is our problem.
 
I agree with Cameron. Valid points on why you should get the whole gun and not just the receiver. The only reason to not purchase a completed gun would be funds or space restrictions. Otherwise, jump in, the waters fine!
 
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