Norinco Ethics (copyrights)?

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dkaardal

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I am wholly ignorant in this area, and I'm looking for a little illumination.

Norinco is a Chinese firm that manufactures copies of various firearms and sells 'em cheap. I'm certainly happy with the cheap part, but are the copies they make internationally legal?

I assume that there are copyrights that have been taken out by the various firms that sell (or did sell) the original firearms, but I'm wondering if Norinco either licenses the designs, or only manufactures firearms who's copyrights have expired?

The only thing that I was able to find searching on the boards was regarding Norinco and forced labour - which I'm certainly not wanting to discuss in this thread!!

Like I said, I'm entirely ignorant of
a: China
b: copyrights
c: international trade and
d: the internal logic of females

Yes, I know that on the surface that d: doesn’t have anything to do with Norinco reproduction firearms, but I've learned the hard way that while I might not *think* what I'm talking about has anything to do with my girlfriend, I'm often - painfully - mistaken.

:D

So: Are the Norinco knockoffs internationally legal?

dak.
 
Probably... but it's likely a sticky topic. The Chinese didn't steal schematics or anything like that, they just painstakingly reverse engineered their rifles from stuff they found in Vietnam. 1911, M16A1, M14 --> NP1911s, CQ311, M305
 
the chinese have been doing the reverse engineering thing for years- i've got copies of books ofww2 rifles and machine guns that have whole sections devoted to the chinese "variants" - thompsons were a favorite, as were stens, and m3 grease guns- prior to the communist take over, a lot of these were made by the village blacksmith and even varied from village to village- indeed, my first issue chinese m14 is a direct copy of the american with a few of the full-auto bits removed, and the bayonet lug of course-
 
Well, the 1911 is no longer copyrighted as everybody and their dog is making them. The M14 and AR15 are not copyrighted either anymore. Neither is the CZ75 or the P226/P228. The only product they make that might still be copyrighted is their BRNO .22 rifles... but that most likely is expired as well.
 
Copyrights doesn't cover design - that is covered by patent. The patent covering certain features on AR15 and M14 are long gone. Of course most likely they don't have the US government TDP, they are most likely reverse engineered or somehow "obtained" through certain channels. In fact, Norinco actually hired a well known US civilian M14 manufacturer as their consultant at one point to fix up their receiver.

The thing ironic about buying a Norinco M14 is more like the "slap in the face". It is the grand statement made to our disregard of originality which is completely based on price point - the Walmart "consumerism". No matter how people justify, they will award those who copy to save a few bucks - just like buying pirated DVDs. THis sad truth leads to the poisonous pet food and lead containing toys in the recent scandals - becasue we want cheap things from a land where no one cares other than money. To add insult to injury, the M14 and AR15 are service rifles of the free world in the last 50+ years, and that buying a knock-off of these rifles from a capitalistic one party dictatorship is the ultimate sell-out and slap in the face in my opinion- an utmost disrespect to those who spend sleepless nights on designing these weapons to defeat communism and to defend democracy.
 
greentips said:
To add insult to injury, the M14 and AR15 are service rifles of the free world in the last 50+ years, and that buying a knock-off of these rifles from a capitalistic one party dictatorship is the ultimate sell-out and slap in the face in my opinion- an utmost disrespect to those who spend sleepless nights on designing these weapons to defeat communism and to defend democracy.
Click to expand...


But since when didn't democracy automatically include capitalism, which promotes you get the most bang for your buck - say like buying a Norinco?
 
greentips said:
Copyrights doesn't cover design - that is covered by patent. The patent covering certain features on AR15 and M14 are long gone. Of course most likely they don't have the US government TDP, they are most likely reverse engineered or somehow "obtained" through certain channels. In fact, Norinco actually hired a well known US civilian M14 manufacturer as their consultant at one point to fix up their receiver.
Click to expand...

I had not heard that about Norinco but I know Poly Technologies worked with Smith Enterprise, Inc. in the 1980s on M14 receivers manufactured by State Arsenal 356 in Yunnan Province.

The U. S. Patents associated with the M1 and M14, many of them filed by John Garand, were released to the U. S. government without royalty payments to the inventor(s). One such example is U. S. Patent 2,710,476 submitted by John Garand. It shows and discusses the designs for the (later type classified) M14 operating rod spring guide, M14 connector lock, and M14 magazine latch.
 
Different said:
I had not heard that about Norinco but I know Poly Technologies worked with Smith Enterprise, Inc. in the 1980s on M14 receivers manufactured by State Arsenal 356 in Yunnan Province.
Click to expand...

I'm thinking the SEI influenced Poly receivers are the side stamped IDE USA receivers.
Were any of the heel stamped Poly receivers affected by SEI's influences?
 
greentips said:
"...The thing ironic about buying a Norinco M14 is more like the "slap in the face". It is the grand statement made to our disregard of originality which is completely based on price point - the Walmart "consumerism"..."

"...To add insult to injury, the M14 and AR15 are service rifles of the free world in the last 50+ years, and that buying a knock-off of these rifles from a capitalistic one party dictatorship is the ultimate sell-out and slap in the face in my opinion- an utmost disrespect to those who spend sleepless nights on designing these weapons to defeat communism and to defend democracy..."
Click to expand...

Another irony is that Norinco needn't concern itself with the clones that they manufacture ever having to compete in their own domestic market with the firearms that they imitate - or any other firearms, for that matter ...this is because private citizens in China are forbidden from selling or owning firearms.

Also, it's probably worth noting that Norinco is a Chinese government run company and is a major supplier of everything from smallarms to missles to the People's Liberation Army (the military arm of the Chinese Communist Party) ...the same folks who brought you the Tiananmen Square Massacre in 1989 and who continue to be the strong-armed instrument of basic human rights oppression in China. Reports of Norinco using slave labour was already mentioned earlier in this thread.

Personally - albeit a symbolic gesture - I will not knowingly purchase a product made by Norinco ...regardless of the quality or cost savings.
 
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I like to be able to look at the guy in the mirror. Buying chinese ANYTHING or MallWart ANYTHING doesn't allow that for me. But I admit, it's damn difficult NOT to buy chinese, given that the West has willingly sent it's manufacturing capabilities there, and other less than democratic nations. You do what you can.
 
Another irony is that if the PLA ever invades North America there is a good
chance they will be shot by a civilian armed with a firearm "Made in China".
 
H2O MAN said:
"...Another irony is that if the PLA ever invades North America there is a good
chance they will be shot by a civilian armed with a firearm "Made in China"..."
Click to expand...

...that's an interesting spin.

The Chinese communist regime being the clever folks that they are (having survived the past century to emerge as one of only two superpowers in the world), I wonder if this isn't an oversight ...but rather, a deliberate part of a 'master plan'.

Just prior to an invasion, a button is pushed in Beijing that signals Chinese satellites in geosynchronous orbit above North America to transmit a pulse that activates a small device embedded in every Chinese made mechanical product in the western hemisphere - including firearms - and rendering them non-functional.


:eek:
 
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Hah, talk about getting off topic. The thread started on negligence of patent rights and skipped right onto satellites and the invasion of North America! Yikes.

Personally though, I could care a less about Chinese firearms policy. If they want to sell us cheap guns and ammo made by slaves, then whatever, I'll still take 2 of each. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone guys.. Canada and the US are hardly innocent when it comes to the ethics of human rights and mega corporations.

It's a dog eat dog world and if it requires that I use cheap Chinese guns and ammo to keep myself from getting eaten, then so be it.
 
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