Restricted storage question?

Really boils down to what you're comfortable with. A steel cabinet or a safe...trigger locked or not...stored with loaded magazines (magazines not inserted in the firearm) or not, bolted down or not.

While I would like the economy and ease of installation of STACK ON cabinets, I would not stake my peace of mind and the security of my precious toys, on legal precedents or jurisprudence. Been following this thread and that is the final decision I have come to, until the Law specifically states that steel cabinets and safes are legally the same thing.

I will call it the way I understand the Law. I may be wrong and the Law has indeed changed, but for the sake of "principle", I am not willing spend any time and money to challenge the law, if it comes to that. Because I am not a lawyer, I am not going to play the wordings or interpretation of the law down to the wire. I prefer to err on the side of "safe". It is cheaper no matter how you do the math.

We are all given free will. So I prefer and will continue to use, for the sake of safety and security, against unauthorized hands as well as against the possible whims of the police, only properly manufacturer-designated safes for Restricted Storage where required by the Law as I understand it.
 
easyrider604 said:
Really boils down to what you're comfortable with. A steel cabinet or a safe...trigger locked or not...stored with loaded magazines (magazines not inserted in the firearm) or not, bolted down or not.

While I would like the economy and ease of installation of STACK ON cabinets, I would not stake my peace of mind and the security of my precious toys, on legal precedents or jurisprudence. Been following this thread and that is the final decision I have come to, until the Law specifically states that steel cabinets and safes are legally the same thing.

I will call it the way I understand the Law. I may be wrong and the Law has indeed changed, but for the sake of "principle", I am not willing spend any time and money to challenge the law, if it comes to that. Because I am not a lawyer, I am not going to play the wordings or interpretation of the law down to the wire. I prefer to err on the side of "safe". It is cheaper no matter how you do the math.

We are all given free will. So I prefer and will continue to use, for the sake of safety and security, against unauthorized hands as well as against the possible whims of the police, only properly manufacturer-designated safes for Restricted Storage where required by the Law as I understand it.
Click to expand...

That's the side I've come down on too.
 
The reality is the powers need to make a deliberate decision "not" to charge or prosecute. They may choose to challenge. The Government has not changed the statue, regs or guidance in line with the precedent. Another dimension i'd add is that any noise around this issue is never going to be good noise. It could play as a legal gun owner deliberately not following the Act or the Regs, and who knows... further the push for central storage etc. While the probability might be low, I think the consequences could be higher then some of the other posters think. But maybe more pragmatic, avoiding this altogether is dead easy.
 
bobdbldr said:
Well, not that anyone will do this but if you want to be 100% sure you are legal, get the cfo AND the rcmp to come look at your storage setup, if they sign off on it, you will be SAFE in court as well as at home! Find a knowledgeable rcmp to inspect as well as the cfo!
Click to expand...

Nope.
 
easyrider604 said:
Really boils down to what you're comfortable with. A steel cabinet or a safe...trigger locked or not...stored with loaded magazines (magazines not inserted in the firearm) or not, bolted down or not.

While I would like the economy and ease of installation of STACK ON cabinets, I would not stake my peace of mind and the security of my precious toys, on legal precedents or jurisprudence. Been following this thread and that is the final decision I have come to, until the Law specifically states that steel cabinets and safes are legally the same thing.

I will call it the way I understand the Law. I may be wrong and the Law has indeed changed, but for the sake of "principle", I am not willing spend any time and money to challenge the law, if it comes to that. Because I am not a lawyer, I am not going to play the wordings or interpretation of the law down to the wire. I prefer to err on the side of "safe". It is cheaper no matter how you do the math.

We are all given free will. So I prefer and will continue to use, for the sake of safety and security, against unauthorized hands as well as against the possible whims of the police, only properly manufacturer-designated safes for Restricted Storage where required by the Law as I understand it.
Click to expand...

You know, to each their own. But you should know that you are buying safes, instead of the stack on cabinets that you would otherwise seem to be satisfied with, because of your feelings.

The Legal Ruling in R V Barnes is law. With equal value as statute. Steel cabinets are Safes under the law. If you don't want to stake your piece of mind on the law, when what are you staking it on? How do you know "manufacture-designated safes for Restricted Storage" meet the legal requirements for storage?

IF you think that there is any reasonable way you could ever end up in court over your choice of stack-on vs Liberty safe, then you need to sell all your guns now and turn in your PAL. Anything less is ideological inconsistency.

You risk having to prove your innocence on half a dozen different charges every time you take your gun to the range. THe legal risks of legal action with gun ownership is immense. And despite that, the actual experience of millions of gun owners has been completely benign. The paranoia and clutching of pearls exhibited by gun owners on this forum every day is completely out of line with reality, that PAL holders just aren't getting ruined in droves because of hotly debated meanings like, SAFE, and VARIANT, and DWELLING HOUSE.
 
Cameron SS said:
You know, to each their own. But you should know that you are buying safes, instead of the stack on cabinets that you would otherwise seem to be satisfied with, because of your feelings.

The Legal Ruling in R V Barnes is law. With equal value as statute. Steel cabinets are Safes under the law. If you don't want to stake your piece of mind on the law, when what are you staking it on? How do you know "manufacture-designated safes for Restricted Storage" meet the legal requirements for storage?

IF you think that there is any reasonable way you could ever end up in court over your choice of stack-on vs Liberty safe, then you need to sell all your guns now and turn in your PAL. Anything less is ideological inconsistency.

You risk having to prove your innocence on half a dozen different charges every time you take your gun to the range. THe legal risks of legal action with gun ownership is immense. And despite that, the actual experience of millions of gun owners has been completely benign. The paranoia and clutching of pearls exhibited by gun owners on this forum every day is completely out of line with reality, that PAL holders just aren't getting ruined in droves because of hotly debated meanings like, SAFE, and VARIANT, and DWELLING HOUSE.
Click to expand...

"To each there own"....exactly!

After 9 pages of posts in this thread and multiple other threads, that's what it comes down to. There is no 'right" answer. Everybody should read the storage regs and do whatever they feel comfortable with.
 
bobdbldr said:
Well, not that anyone will do this but if you want to be 100% sure you are legal, get the cfo AND the rcmp to come look at your storage setup, if they sign off on it, you will be SAFE in court as well as at home! Find a knowledgeable rcmp to inspect as well as the cfo!
Click to expand...

This is the most insane advice I have ever ever heard.

THe CFO and RCMP will never never never never never "sign off" of your storage set up. There is no such thing as a storage set up sign off form. The only thing the RCMP will do when they are standing around in your house is look for a reason to charge you with something, just to justify wasting their time. And no matter, 100% of cops can find a reason to lay a charge for something in the home of any gun owner in the country.

You are completely out of touch if you think a previous home inspection by police which did not result in charges can be used in your defense at some future trial.

You think all those times you drove past a cop car and didn't get pulled over proves to a judge you weren't speeding on the day in question? YOu think that RCMP officer is going to testify in your defence, against the opinion of one of his colleagues, at your trial?

If you want to keep your guns and stay out of court, you should keep the police out of your house. No warrant, no entry. Period.
 
Years ago, I was in Toronto. At that time, you had to have the Toronto Police come by and inspect your residence and tell you if the storage was adequate prior to being issued the appropriate permits.
They came to my place and felt that I did not have adequate storage. I asked them to provide me with something to tell me what might be adequate storage. They could not do that.
I get it. They cannot say "Do this and you will be safe and never be charged." It puts them on the hook in a way that is unreasonable.

That said, I agree with Cameron SS. Keep the police out of your house.
 
KeltecFan said:
Years ago, I was in Toronto. At that time, you had to have the Toronto Police come by and inspect your residence and tell you if the storage was adequate prior to being issued the appropriate permits.
They came to my place and felt that I did not have adequate storage. I asked them to provide me with something to tell me what might be adequate storage. They could not do that.
I get it. They cannot say "Do this and you will be safe and never be charged." It puts them on the hook in a way that is unreasonable.

That said, I agree with Cameron SS. Keep the police out of your house.
Click to expand...

My grandfather lived in Toronto and owned guns from 1943 when he joined the air force. We just renewed his PAL which is now set to expire on his 99th birthday. He bought his first handgun in 1950, which was a 2.75" barrel length revolver. He owned it with a carry permit from 1950 until 1994 when he retired at the age of 70. He says he has NEVER had Toronto Police inspect his storage. IN 1968 his carry permit was signed by the Toronto Chief of Police, a guy he went to high school with, and under the signature is hand written, in the same ink as the chiefs signature "Go get em, Tiger". I know this because I have a copy of it in my files.

I asked him what he would do if the police ever came to inspect his guns and he replied:

"one time back in the late 90s two $#@%$ (racial slur) kids in police uniforms showed up asking about the pistol, wanting to inspect it to see if it was registered or some such. I told those punks that the only part of that gun they were going to get to see was the business end while I dialed up the chief to file a formal protest, so if they insisted on wanting to see the gun I'd be happy to oblige them. They thanks me for my time and kindly took my invitation to get the fvck off my porch. "

IN today's parlance, we would call that flexing your white privilege.

I guess individual experiences vary.
 
Cameron SS said:
This is the most insane advice I have ever ever heard.

THe CFO and RCMP will never never never never never "sign off" of your storage set up. There is no such thing as a storage set up sign off form. The only thing the RCMP will do when they are standing around in your house is look for a reason to charge you with something, just to justify wasting their time. And no matter, 100% of cops can find a reason to lay a charge for something in the home of any gun owner in the country.

You are completely out of touch if you think a previous home inspection by police which did not result in charges can be used in your defense at some future trial.

You think all those times you drove past a cop car and didn't get pulled over proves to a judge you weren't speeding on the day in question? YOu think that RCMP officer is going to testify in your defence, against the opinion of one of his colleagues, at your trial?

If you want to keep your guns and stay out of court, you should keep the police out of your house. No warrant, no entry. Period.
Click to expand...
Jumping off the deep end there bubba, my first sentence was that no one would do this, and that based on the multitude of different opinions on this thread alone there really is no true way to be 100% sure you won't get charged or be within the ambiguous laws, everyone interprets it differently, perhaps a lawyer would be the best one to interpret and suggest what is acceptable if we need be that anal!
 
sailor723 said:
"To each there own"....exactly!

After 9 pages of posts in this thread and multiple other threads, that's what it comes down to. There is no 'right" answer. Everybody should read the storage regs and do whatever they feel comfortable with.
Click to expand...

Except that there is a right answer, and it was given in Post #2.
 
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