Bear defence - again

how about the 450 Bushmaster, oh I forgot this is Canada. In that case my recommendation is a good pump or autoloading shotgun and as others have stated be alert.

Brian
 
I look at a mountain-climbing and hiking site quite a bit and there are a lot more people on that site than here who go on long multi day wilderness adventures into bear country and guess what?

They never talk about guns.

When they do talk about bears, they talk about storing food away from tents, being bear-aware and bear avoidance.
 
450 Marlin !!! That is what I am carrying in the bear zone.
Tryin to avoid them is best, but it doesn't always happen that way.
Following good bear awareness practices are great.

The hikers stories are usually not related too much to bears and guns, but then on the other hand, hikers often are wearing bear bells and making as much noise as they can in bear country, ... they are seldom up to the elbows in an Elks blood and guts in the middle of the brush or marsh after sounding the dinner bell bang.

The fact that hikers and people partaking in recreational outings and activities are attacked and injured or killed so many more times than hunters leads me to believe that while many hikers are knowledgable on bears, they may not be the best group to get your awareness practices from, and in hindsight, I'm sure there are a lot of hikers who wished they had a gun.

I think that not carrying a firearm in bear country, increases your odds of being harmed in attack, obviously.

If you decide not to pack a firearm, you assume a risk. The same with not doing your homework.
The less risk the better.
 
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As it stands I do as much as I can to avoid bears, ie: bear caching up large trees with rope, washing dishes far from camp, no attractants near camp, bearbells, etc etc. However, encounters with wildlife do occur. There have been two occasions when an unseen bear has scented us from above on an avalanche chute (in summer they grow in with willow and tall scrub) and has come crashing down through it. Both times we were lucky enough to miss him on his way past, but it was not an enjoyable experience. My reason for asking was that many people here do have multiple experiences of encounters with bears, and know more than I do. I would prefer to avoid learning by error in this situation:p.
 
MD said:
I look at a mountain-climbing and hiking site quite a bit and there are a lot more people on that site than here who go on long multi day wilderness adventures into bear country and guess what?

They never talk about guns.

When they do talk about bears, they talk about storing food away from tents, being bear-aware and bear avoidance.
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Well thats dumb..

what they gonna do when mr bear decides to visit?
 
MD said:
I look at a mountain-climbing and hiking site quite a bit and there are a lot more people on that site than here who go on long multi day wilderness adventures into bear country and guess what?

They never talk about guns.

When they do talk about bears, they talk about storing food away from tents, being bear-aware and bear avoidance.
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It's like a seatbelt. You may never need a firearm, but when you do, you do. I was hunting south of Hudson Bay Sask. Dropped a whitetail and was in the process of gutting it when several bears arrived for a snack. If I didn't have a hunting buddy they would have got the deer, and I'd already cut my tag.
 
Bear smarts are important, but the reason that the hikers don't talk about guns is because most of them don't own them or know how to use them. A firearm in the hands of the ignorant is alot more useless than a can of bearspray....

Guns are just another tool in the toolbox, a last measure to use after your bear avoidance has failed, or you just ran into some bad luck.

I often trudge around in the bush wiht just a lighter and a pocket knife, but in some areas I never go without a firearm.:)
 
Something that I like to relate; this is a story that's about 20 years old now...


Me and a buddy were moose hunting one time and we saw a moose way down across a huge cutblock. We looked it over for a while to try to determine if it was a cow or a small bull. We finally agreed that it was a cow and then I got the idea that I wanted to stalk the thing, just to see how close I could get.
I landmarked the spot where the cow should be and set off. Once I got down there I was sneaking along and trying to pick up where the cow was. Well the moose had sensed me (odor or noise I don't know) and all of a sudden came running out from behind a big log stack.

The thing that has amazed me forever is that I knew almost exactly where that animal was and expected it, yet if it had been coming for me, I woulda been dead. And the fact is that a bear can move quicker and even more suddenly then a moose.

So the notion that an unprepared man can amble along with a gun for protection from a sudden attack is false security, no matter what you're packing.

I always take a gun in the bush with me, but I am under no illusion that I could bring it into action quick enough to stop a bear that was laying in ambush.

Yeah, I feel sorry for almost anybody that ends up in bear scat. Tim Treadwell proved there are exceptions to any rule.
 
Demonical said:
So the notion that an unprepared man can amble along with a gun for protection from a sudden attack is false security, no matter what you're packing.

.
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I agree, but most bear encounters/attacks are not surprises. It happens, of course, when a person stumbles upon a carcass a grizzly is defending, or the mother and cubs thing, and I am sre peopel have just tunred a corner and surprised a bear (I have), but most dont' happen from point blank range, with no warning.
:)
 
I tend to agree that most dangerous bear encounters are not without warning. Question is, do you heed the warning?

How can anyone claim they were attacked without warning, then say they could smell a dead animal as they walked down a trail? How can anyone claim they were attacked without warning if they push through a stand of willows to save the few minutes it would take to walk around. How can anyone say they were attacked without warning if they did not glass the trail ahead of them? Some warnings might be more subtle than others, but there is usually a warning. Mostly I believe the only time you could be attacked by a bear without warning would be if you are attacked while asleep, and for that reason I dislike sleeping in a tent in bear country, preferring to sleep in the open, under a tarp if need be, so I can see.

Most people say they practice avoidance when in bear habitat, but sometimes human curiosity overcomes human self preservation, "Gee, look at the size of that thing, I wonder how close I can get?" I don't even pretend to practice avoidance. If I see a bear, I go and check him out. This has lead to many adventures (you know you are having an adventure when you wish you were somewhere else) but it has also taught me a great deal about bear behavior.
 
Some bears turn predator and stalk the hunter; not the same as the random meeting. Fortunately extremely rare, but when it happens good luck with that... :eek:
I'm sure a lot of you have read the various Bear Attack books. Some scary #### in there and some very experienced outdoorsmen that have ended up as bear scat

I've hunted in places, where bears would be at self defense distance before you could see them; I'm sure most people here would say the same.

I think the reality is that most people are not alert to bears, while hunting deer, elk, moose etc...
 
Originally Posted by Demonical View Post
So the notion that an unprepared man can amble along with a gun for protection from a sudden attack is false security, no matter what you're packing.
Click to expand...

.

I agree, but most bear encounters/attacks are not surprises. It happens, of course, when a person stumbles upon a carcass a grizzly is defending, or the mother and cubs thing, and I am sre peopel have just tunred a corner and surprised a bear (I have), but most dont' happen from point blank range, with no warning.
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True - and in MOST (but not all) cases the person when 'surprised' had a moment to do something. Like throw your hat from your head into it's face -it'll stop often and take several seconds to tear that up then come after you. But those seconds could be all you need. You could also use your bear spray and break the attack and then use that time to ready your firearm. Often sprayed bears re-attack a few minutes later, but now you're ready.

People often also manage to get a tree or something between them and the animal.

And it may not be you it attacks. It may jump on your buddy and knock him down - but you're in a position to ready your firearm and try to drive it off. Many people have been rescued by another person beside them firing a 'warning shot' with the gun - bear runs off a few feet - then gets a load for it's trouble.

The fact is - people have been killed even when they were ready, even when they got a few shots into the bear. Guns aren't a panecea, and they're no replacement for your brains and good awareness of your surroundings. But - with a little knowledge and practice they can definately increase your chances of survival by an order of magnitude.
 
Demonical said:
I've hunted in places, where bears would be at self defense distance before you could see them; I'm sure most people here would say the same.

I think the reality is that most people are not alert to bears, while hunting deer, elk, moose etc...
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A friend was pushing bush (hunting whitetail). He was walking along a fallen log when he stepped on a furry stump. For a big guy, he sure can move when he's scared ####less. He went one way, the bear went the other :popCorn::D
 
i happened upon 3 black bears. They were just walkin around. sniffin and chewin on grass. I thought, ok, there is a huge tree about 10 feet away with real good climbin branches. If they start to notice me I'll be up there pretty quick. As I made my way to the tree I snapped a branch and got all 3 attention. Well holy ####, they took off!!! And two climbed a lot more dificult tree then the one I was gonna climb, and did it faster than a monkey, and got damn high!!! that was a lesson in bears for me.

Another time when I was younger, I had my suzuki with no top on out 4x4 ing on a trail. There was mr bear. He came over and I poured some mountain dew on the ground, he loved it. but then he got on his hind legsand put his paws in the back.(suzukis are small). I could have drove off, but not that smart back then. I threw him the mountain dew and he drank it all and played with the can, he then came back to the suzuki and on hind legs again was lookin in the back. It was nice and cool for a few minutes. Then, somethingflew down by the wheel, a robin or a jay or something, he gave a big snort and shook hi head and frightened the hell outta me.
learned a lot that day too.

Bear behaviour is something that I examine from a distance and if in the bush, examined through a scope or down the irons when within 100 yrds.

A gun is as many have said "another tool in the box"

My buddy is a carpenter, and you should see his tools.
He has all kinds of squares, triangles, chisels, bits etc.

I own a hammer.

We both do renos, only he does it much more efficiently, with a lot less mess and a lot sweat. but at the end of the day, we both end up with the wall torn down.

Use what you got, and if you have very little, at least have a hammer ! (gun)
:)
 
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