Cree hunter upset after Quebec police question if his guns are registered
- Thread starter Thomas D'Arcy McGee
- Start date
This is what is called the 'lobster pot' mentality (at least, here on the Atlantic coast.) In other words, the efforts of any single lobster to escape the pot of boiling water being stymied by his fellow captives, such that no one gets out and all perish, or "If I can't escape it, neither can you". If anyone can beat the Firearms Registration Act, I wish them every success. Cracks in the foundation of such a nonsensical piece of legislation are what we all need, not wagging our fingers in support of its enforcement.
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
Yes, but that criminal charge comes at a riduculous cost to that individual. I think its more prudent to comply with the law and challenge its underpinnings legally versus what some people have tried, failed miserably and lost a lot more then just their guns. As a community we won the LGR battle, but we didnt win because we rebelled with non compliance.
100% bang on!! This is why I say this Cree article does nothing to support the abolishment of Quebec’s stupid registry. And I’ve already shared my opinion that I feel the article has nothing to do with the gun registry in the first place. This was an article about hunting and Cree rights
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
Agreed!
Its not a criminal charge, not being a Criminal Code offence.
Challenging it legally means getting the Act under scrutiny in court. I think you mean 'politically' (how it happened with LGR.)
We'll have to agree to disagree about whether the article has anything to do with Quebec's gun registry. Second sentence in the article:
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
1. Im referring to the old LGR. There were many that were criminally charged and convicted. Some for holding off on registration to be a martyr to prove a point.
2. No I mean legally....which cant happen if people dont get charged like Mr Cree then nothing actually goes before the court. Although I’m sure someone else in the same situation will unfortunately get the book thrown at them
3. And I’m ok with a different viewpoint. In my opinion, the premise of the complaint was that he was merely asked if the firearm was registered and thereafter turned into a hunting rights discussion as a reason to why it wasnt registered. Hardly a firearms do gooder in my opinion
As I said earlier, it doesn't matter who Mr. Cox is. He certainly doesn't need to be a "do gooder". If the law is utterly asinine (which it is), then it ought not to apply to anyone. If there were a Quebec law that said you could not speak the Queen's English anywhere in the province on a Friday, it wouldn't matter if the person charged under that law was the worst kind of criminal offender. I would still think he ought not to have been charged, and ought not to be convicted, and that the law should not exist.
I see it as if there are no exceptions, it will result in more people rising up against this, and the more that rise up, the better the chance of it being abolished for all, which should be our ultimate goal.
I understand what you're saying. However, if people simply point fingers (especially at fellow gun owners) and say 'hey, that guy is not following the Quebec LGR, get him!', then that sounds to the rest of the world an awful lot like 'gun owners are divided on the Quebec LGR issue' or worse, 'gun owners actually support the Quebec LGR'. Instead, I prefer that they hear 'the Quebec LGR makes no sense, look how it treated this guy, and to what end'.
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
Agree again. This is my thinking as well
I agree it makes no sense whatsoever to be hating on the guy because he wasn't charged under Quebec's gun registry law, which we apparently also hate. Unfortunately it has (again) exposed the flaws of human nature.
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
I would agree that an FN individual could help in abolishment. From how I read the article, I didnt get the impression that he gave a crap about the registration to begin with, hence why he didnt register his gun. To me, his motive appears to be why he was questioned when all he’s trying to do is live his FN life. No arguments as to why the registry is terrible....just complaints that he is merely being asked in the first place. Who are “you” to ask “us” kind of nonsense
I’ve been asked numerous times for my registration certificate during a routine stop. The thought of complaining about being asked never once crossed my mind let alone going to the media
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
Are you kidding? The indigenous court challenge is the MOST likely avenue that will see this registry repealed.
Actually, the fastest way to get yourself in front a judge for a legal challenge is to not comply, and to do it publicly. And it would probably be cheaper in the long run as provincial offence trials are far less expensive than federal court challenges where you first have to establish standing. And its hard to prove you were harmed by free registration of a firearm. Its easier to prove when you have a $5,000 fine on your head.
Wrong again. Non compliance is the reason the registry was useless. IF gun owners universally provided complete and accurate information on all guns in Canada, we would still very much have a registry. You think Marijuana got legalized because no one was smoking it? You think prostitution laws got struck down cause no one was doing it? You think abortion laws were struck down because it wasn't happening. Non Compliance is what drives legalization. Always has, always will. NO government would survive if it used a heavy hand to enforce unpopular laws against innocent people. IN order to keep up the illusion that the government has power they need people to voluntarily submit. When people do not voluntarily submit, it threatens that illusion and governments need to move quickly to protect it.
100% bang on!! This is why I say this Cree article does nothing to support the abolishment of Quebec’s stupid registry.[/QUOTE]
It shows how out of touch and tone deaf Quebec police are. It shows how honest gun owners, including instructors, are not complying with this law, and yet are a threat to no one. It shows how this law in no way allowed for any consultation or acknowledgment of Indigenous peoples. And it highlights the additional unforecasted costs that will be incurred by this program which must be covered by the Quebec taxpayers. Articles like this are certainly what is going to help the push to repeal the registry.
0 for 3. You're out.
Cameron SS
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Ground Zero
I too have questions about how exactly it came to be that the police managed to find him in the woods. They must have followed him from town.
And no, he didn't care one bit about the registry. That was obvious. And yes, he questions why he was targeted, and indicates that it might be dangerous for cops to drop in on people hunting in the wilderness. These are all valid concerns.
I've never once been asked for a registration certificate, and have only rarely been pulled over in any routine stop, so again I wonder how it is that YOU have had so many routine stops where you ended up being asked for registration certificates. If complaining doesn't cross your mind every time the privacy rights of an innocent person are infringed by the police, then as far as the liberals are concerned, you are the perfect gun owner. They are also betting you won't complain if they try to ban your guns entirely .
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
I do all my waterfowl hunting in Orillia and at a lake that is 5 mins from the OPP headquarters. In the earlier years my sister had a cottage on the lake. Every opening day for goose and duck (twice a year) we had MNR and OPP come to the lake and check all the hunters. We’ve had them come by boat to the property as well as to the marshes. The MNR checked hunting licenses and migratory bird licenses and OPP checked PALs and gun registration. They went around the lake to spot decoys and came straight in. Also checked all fishing boats on the water and I knew lots of people who where given tickets for not having enough life jackets while on the water. The officers and MNR were always super nice and courteous and they usually came after the birds stopped flying. This past season was the first time I didnt get checked by MNR and OPP have generally stopped coming around since the LGR was cancelled. It was routine and never a cause for concern....well I guess to those who were in breach of something may have been concerned
Edit: MNR also checked magazine capacity.....but oddly enough, they never checked if we were using non tox shot. I dont ever recall them looking at ammo even from a distance. Also, oddly enough for this thread, a great majority of the lake is native reserve. OPP and MNR said they do not check hunters on those shores....the old neighbour was proof of that. He occasionally hunted the shore in front of the airport as he had a lease on the land and never once had the visit while he was there even when he saw their boat on the lake
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This guy is not making a fuss because he feels the law is wrong for all residents, he is making a fuss, because he feels natives such as himself , should not be bothered with such things. If the Quebec government simply made natives exempt, he wouldn't care if everyone else still had to comply. And an exemption for natives, would make it far less likely that the registry would be abolished.
1963beretta
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Vaughan, Ontario
1) You misunderstand. That was exactly my point. I was referring to the fellow in the article as Mr Cree as I couldnt recall his name. I was not speaking of the Cree people as a whole
2) Again thats my point. Nothing will go before any court if there arent any fines issued for people who dont comply. And it wouldnt be cheap for the poor soul who has to pay about $500/hour in legal defence. There have been very public cases of people who challenged the LGR, successful or not, and have lost everything to lawyers fees. If you want to take one for the team, have at it! Its your cash not mine
3) no doubt the registry was useless...but are you suggesting that it was terminated because of non compliance and false information being provided?? It was terminated because of the costs it was incurring of running the program.....many multiples more then what was originally stated. The fact that the program sucked and didnt provide the benefits that politicians said it would certainly helped, but it wasnt because the vast number of people were intentionally non compliant
I already said I didn't care about his personal motivations for disliking the law. Everyone with a whit of sense dislikes the law.
I don't agree with that at all. If the Firearms Registration Act is challenged, there will be cracks in the foundational underpinnings of why the province even brought in a registry. And eventually, in this case or another, there will be be opportunity for intervenors.
