When powdercoating always verify your oven
- Thread starter yomomma
- Start date
vagrantviking
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- High River, Alberta
Anything I'm using the PID controller on I either bypass the control or just crank it to max.
No idea if my toaster oven thermostat is anywhere close but this way it doesn't matter.
Without the PID it would certainly be wise to experiment before trusting it with any bullets.
No idea if my toaster oven thermostat is anywhere close but this way it doesn't matter.
Without the PID it would certainly be wise to experiment before trusting it with any bullets.
maltextract
Regular
- Location
- Rural Manitoba
I just put the coated boolits in at somewhere close to what it’s supposed to be at and give them 15 minutes. They’ve all passed the smash test so far.
Pretty much the way I do it. I've even sized coated boolits and the coating stayed on.
This came from an oven set to temp
At what temp? I used a cheap old B&D toaster oven, set it to 350 (IIRC) and leave it for 20 minutes. Never had a single boolit (out of thousands I've done) come out misshapen or melted. The only issue I've ever had was some of the PC sticking to the mesh and leaving some lead exposed at the base, but that hasn't caused any problems yet.
Lacking a PID/thermocouple setup, there are cheaper/simpler ways to verify oven temperature before sticking your bullets on bake.
Bimetal oven thermometers should be viewed with suspicion. The thermometers that still use a liquid filled tube to indicate temperature are generally much more accurate. There's one from Taylor that Amazon sells for about $10.
The other thing you can do to verify temperature requires a good probe style cooking thermometer, the kind used in restaurants use to check the temperature of a turkey, roasts, sterilizing stuff, etc. You fill a small container with an appropriate oil, give the oven time to come to temperature and stabilize, and then check the temperature of the oil. Adjust the oven in increments until it's at the desired, stabilized temperature - at the racks on which you intend to be baking bullets. This also allows you to calibrate what the oven thermometer says the oven temperature is, versus what it actually is.
For those worrying about flames from burning oil coming out of the oven, there is this:
The smoke points for common cooking oils are given below, from highest to lowest:
Smoke points are well below those for flash point and autoignition. Temps can vary a bit due to amount of impurities, how processed, etc., but not much. As most Bullet Bakers are doing so around 400°F, common cooking oils like peanut oil, safflower, canola, etc will work to figure out that temperature setting for your oven.
That doesn't get you around element cycling of your oven, and if you have really big cycles, you might end up melting bullets... If you have a problematic oven with large cycles and you want to stick with trying to make it work, placing metal in the oven will help as a heat sink to minimize temperature cycles.
Will also help if you don't keep opening the door just to have a peek.
BTW, a couple of the powder manufacturers talk about the substrate temperature of the material being powder coated before starting to time the curing period. Worth keeping that in mind if you're having less than perfect results from powder coating.
Bimetal oven thermometers should be viewed with suspicion. The thermometers that still use a liquid filled tube to indicate temperature are generally much more accurate. There's one from Taylor that Amazon sells for about $10.
The other thing you can do to verify temperature requires a good probe style cooking thermometer, the kind used in restaurants use to check the temperature of a turkey, roasts, sterilizing stuff, etc. You fill a small container with an appropriate oil, give the oven time to come to temperature and stabilize, and then check the temperature of the oil. Adjust the oven in increments until it's at the desired, stabilized temperature - at the racks on which you intend to be baking bullets. This also allows you to calibrate what the oven thermometer says the oven temperature is, versus what it actually is.
For those worrying about flames from burning oil coming out of the oven, there is this:
The smoke points for common cooking oils are given below, from highest to lowest:
Peanut Oil: 450°F
Safflower Oil: 450°F
Soybean Oil: 450°F
Grapeseed Oil: 445°F
Canola Oil: 435°F
Corn Oil 410°F
Olive Oil: 410°F
Sesame Seed Oil: 410°F
Sunflower Oil: 390°F
Safflower Oil: 450°F
Soybean Oil: 450°F
Grapeseed Oil: 445°F
Canola Oil: 435°F
Corn Oil 410°F
Olive Oil: 410°F
Sesame Seed Oil: 410°F
Sunflower Oil: 390°F
Smoke points are well below those for flash point and autoignition. Temps can vary a bit due to amount of impurities, how processed, etc., but not much. As most Bullet Bakers are doing so around 400°F, common cooking oils like peanut oil, safflower, canola, etc will work to figure out that temperature setting for your oven.
That doesn't get you around element cycling of your oven, and if you have really big cycles, you might end up melting bullets... If you have a problematic oven with large cycles and you want to stick with trying to make it work, placing metal in the oven will help as a heat sink to minimize temperature cycles.
Will also help if you don't keep opening the door just to have a peek.
BTW, a couple of the powder manufacturers talk about the substrate temperature of the material being powder coated before starting to time the curing period. Worth keeping that in mind if you're having less than perfect results from powder coating.
Nice to know but how do you tell and control the exact temperature in your lead melting pot?
A pid controller is not really expensive and an extra thermocouple for your oven is cheap so well worth it if you ask me.
Combine it with a solid state relay and you have ultimate control and repeatability.
Heck i even use my pid for my home built smoker. Put a seperate thermocouple in every device and put appropriate plug on it
I don't, other than what the thermometer I bought from Bill Ferguson 30+ years ago tells me it is. And a few Temperil pens that are still kicking around somewhere.
I can get repeatable results whether casting 540 gr. pure lead Minis for a front stuffer, to wheelweight for .35, .303, and .30 cal. Some of that is experience, some of that is knowing your pot, and some of that with the rifle bullets is that if they drop out of the mould looking perfectly filled out, a little frosty looking, without surface imperfections, then the temperature is probably about right. Rifle bullets are going to make a trip across the electronic scale anyways.
Knowing oven temperatures when heat treating bullets to achieve a desired final BHN is far more critical than whatever the pot was at when the wheelweight came out the bottom to fill the mould.
And more to the point of this thread, despite not having a PID, I haven't ended with puddles of lead rather than bullets even once in about 30 years of doing it. Which is what this thread focused on. Probably because I know the temperature of the oven - and have long before PIDs were in use by bullet casters.
I'm not against PIDs. I will probably spring for one sometime in the future as lubing rifle bullets disappears from my bullet casting to be replaced by PC. But at this time, I'm one of the majority of casters who doesn't have PIDS nor pots, ovens, and moulds equipped for PIDs. So I make do with what I've been using up until now.
The bottom line is that - right now, if you don't have a PID - a quality cooking thermometer that you've been using on the turkey anyways will tell you when your oven is stabilized at 400°F (or whatever temp you want to cook your PC bullets). The last good cooking thermometer I bought after it's predecessor went through the dishwasher was $23 and supposedly guaranteed +/- 2°F.
Works for me until the day I do shell out for a PID. May work for others who also do not have a PID right now.
I think you missed the point then.
The point was that most toasterovens are cheaply made and temperature settings should not be trusted.
The picture of the melted bullets was just one example i found on the net. I have read more than one post where the bullets were not baked enough.
How you verify you temperature , PID, themometer or oil voodo, is not really the issue
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This came from an oven set to temp
Man, those would leave a fabulous wound channel in ballistic gel.
maltextract
Regular
- Location
- Rural Manitoba
A cheap laser works ok too.
My toaster oven is out of whack too, with the dial is set for 400F the inside temperature is almost 460F and I ruined some silicone mats discovering that. I bought a $7 oven thermometer, which is $2 more than I paid for the toaster oven so still OK I guess. PID would be the way to go but I haven't yet.
