Rem 783 16.5" + MDT LSS + folding stock = OAL restricted?

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Looking at inexpensive bolts - Rem 783 or Vanguard S2 varmint or Savage in 308.

Just wondering: what would be the overall length of a 783 shorty in a chassis with a folding stock?

Sounds like it might end up shorter than 660 mm with stock folded, and that would fall under the restricted definition:

Restricted firearms include:
...
rifles and shotguns that can be fired when their overall length has been reduced by folding, telescoping or other means to less than 660 mm;
 
Hard to say. The rifle is listed at 36-1/8” OAL. Take about 13” off for the stock and you’re at 23”. Depends how much tang the stock has, and how long the folding adapter is. If you add a muzzle break, you’ll easily reach the 26” length.
 
I think you should be ok. Not the most scientific method, but I placed the measuring tape at 660mm where my barrell is ending.

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Blastattack said:
Hard to say. The rifle is listed at 36-1/8” OAL. Take about 13” off for the stock and you’re at 23”. Depends how much tang the stock has, and how long the folding adapter is. If you add a muzzle break, you’ll easily reach the 26” length.
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I don't think the muzzle brake counts towards the overall length...
 
Blastattack said:
Everything counts towards overall length. Muzzle breaks don’t count towards barrel length.
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Wrong. In this country, only rifled portion of the barrel is measured in the OAL of a firearm. If muzzle brake length was counted, everyone who has super short barrels could compensate with a extra long brake to stay legal. So no, muzzle brakes/compensaters so not count.
 
rascal1 said:
Wrong. In this country, only rifled portion of the barrel is measured in the OAL of a firearm. If muzzle brake length was counted, everyone who has super short barrels could compensate with a extra long brake to stay legal. So no, muzzle brakes/compensaters so not count.
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But putting a super long brake still wouldn't change the fact that your barrel is too short... The barrel length still needs to be over 18.5 inches to be non restricted.
 
jhnvan said:
But putting a super long brake still wouldn't change the fact that your barrel is too short... The barrel length still needs to be over 18.5 inches to be non restricted.
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Not in a factory barrelled bolt action. No minimum factory barrel length in bolt action for NR, just generally minimum OAL of 26” or so. Mares leg is less and NR.
 
rascal1 said:
Wrong. In this country, only rifled portion of the barrel is measured in the OAL of a firearm. If muzzle brake length was counted, everyone who has super short barrels could compensate with a extra long brake to stay legal. So no, muzzle brakes/compensaters so not count.
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If only the rifled portion of the barrel is measured in the OAL length of a firearm, what about shotguns?
 
tiriaq said:
If only the rifled portion of the barrel is measured in the OAL length of a firearm, what about shotguns?
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Ok, actual barrel length, the portion that the bullet or shot actually makes contact with. Muzzle brakes do not make contact with bullet or shot and thus do not count in the AOL for legal requirements, Again from bolt face to end of muzzle of the barrel that affects the projectile(s).._No addiction to the end of the barrel plays into OAL in Canadian Firearms Laws. This is not the US where the opposite is true. Believe what ever you want, the law is clear.

Cheers
 
rascal1 said:
Ok, actual barrel length, the portion that the bullet or shot actually makes contact with. Muzzle brakes do not make contact with bullet or shot and thus do not count in the AOL for legal requirements, Again from bolt face to end of muzzle of the barrel that affects the projectile(s).._No addiction to the end of the barrel plays into OAL in Canadian Firearms Laws. This is not the US where the opposite is true. Believe what ever you want, the law is clear.

Cheers
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If you were describing barrel length what your saying would be correct. But because your describing OAL your wrong. OAL is the length of the gun, and muzzle devices count.

Rather than beat our keyboards to death, just post up this legalese your pushing.
 
gallen270 said:
If you were describing barrel length what your saying would be correct. But because your describing OAL your wrong. OAL is the length of the gun, and muzzle devices count.

Rather than beat our keyboards to death, just post up this legalese your pushing.
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You should probably read it yourself, make your own informed decision.
 
rascal1 said:
You should probably read it yourself, make your own informed decision.
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Ok,I will help you out. Straight from the criminal Code of Canada:
Section 84(2)

restricted firearm means

(a) a handgun that is not a prohibited firearm,

(b) a firearm that

(i) is not a prohibited firearm,

(ii) has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and

(iii) is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,

(c) a firearm that is designed or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping or otherwise, or

(d) a firearm of any other kind that is prescribed to be a restricted firearm; (arme à feu à autorisation restreinte)

restricted weapon means any weapon, other than a firearm, that is prescribed to be a restricted weapon; (arme à autorisation restreinte)

superior court means

(a) in Ontario, the Superior Court of Justice, sitting in the region, district or county or group of counties where the relevant adjudication was made,

(b) in Quebec, the Superior Court,

(c) in New Brunswick, Manitoba, Saskatchewan and Alberta, the Court of Queen’s Bench,

(d) in Nova Scotia, British Columbia, Prince Edward Island and a territory, the Supreme Court, and

(e) in Newfoundland and Labrador, the Trial Division of the Supreme Court; (cour supérieure)

transfer means sell, provide, barter, give, lend, rent, send, transport, ship, distribute or deliver. (cession)

Marginal note:Barrel length

(2) For the purposes of this Part, the length of a barrel of a firearm is

(a) in the case of a revolver, the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to the breach end immediately in front of the cylinder, and

(b) in any other case, the distance from the muzzle of the barrel to and including the chamber,

but does not include the length of any component, part or accessory including any component, part or accessory designed or intended to suppress the muzzle flash or reduce recoil.
 
tiriaq said:
That defines barrel length.
There is no reference to overall length of a firearm.
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Yes there is, it is above my cut and pasted text. Just go and read 84(1) which covers OAL. You guys can interpret however you like.

restricted firearm means

(a) a handgun that is not a prohibited firearm,

(b) a firearm that

(i) is not a prohibited firearm,

(ii) has a barrel less than 470 mm in length, and

(iii) is capable of discharging centre-fire ammunition in a semi-automatic manner,

(c) a firearm that is designed or adapted to be fired when reduced to a length of less than 660 mm by folding, telescoping or otherwise, or

(d) a firearm of any other kind that is prescribed to be a restricted firearm; (arme à feu à autorisation restreinte)
 
tiriaq said:
That defines barrel length.
There is no reference to overall length of a firearm.
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I agree, it refers to "length of firearm", so you would have to find something specific to O.A.L or "firearm" in its definition, which there is not. I'm not sure you could say that stock is designed to be fired in that format (folded), the manufacturer would perhaps define that...

Or put a nub on the stock that folds in behind the trigger so it cant be pulled when folded, then make it as short as you want.
 
cody c said:
I agree, furthermore, there is no specific definition for overall length in the legalese, and I'm not sure you could say that stock is designed to be fired in that format (folded), the manufacturer would perhaps define that...

Or put a nub on the stock that folds in behind the trigger so it cant be pulled when folded, then make it as short as you want.
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It doesn't matter if the stock is DESIGNED to fire while folded, just whether it can or not. Designed OR adapted - putting a new stock on it would be adapting. Also, they are talking about the firearm not the stock. I dont' think your nub idea would work either, because you would be able to fire the gun at a reduced length because the stock doesn't need to be fully folded to reduce the length.

As for OAL, a muzzle device SHOULD count if its permanently attached. I say SHOULD, because there is no legalese that covers this topic. However, anecdotally, the TROY PAR with the folding stock was originally R due to OAL, but upon appeal from the importer the RCMP determined it to be NR, because they included the pinned on flash hider as part of the OAL.

Alternatively, when my friend (and me, I wanted a second opinion) inquired about his 10/22 and using a 16" barrel with a folding stock, we were both told muzzle devices do NOT count towards OAL, according to the lab techs who e-mailed us back.

So, it would appear that a permanently attached muzzle device SHOULD count, but unless its welded or pinned on, it won't count.
 
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