223 Bolt Action for Precision Training?

Mike112288 said:
Sweet build! I almost wish I had gone 1-7 twist but I wanted to be able to run 53 grain v max as well. Doesn’t a 1-7 twist wear out quicker than a 1-14 twist? I thought somebody wrote about that somewhere. I may just remove the new mtu barrel and sell it and put a lighter prefit onto it
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Pressure and heat are the real culprits in barrel wear. A 22-250 in a 14 twist fired at full throttle will cook a barrel fast... a 223 running 90gr bullets at moderate pressures can last a good long time.

Jerry
 
Last time I checked the rules for PRS limit 223 to 77 grain projectiles.

I read rumors a while back that they were going to change that....

Has anybody heard anything about changes to that rule?

I suppose we could run 88s for PRS but then we'd be competing in open division.
 
Maple57 said:
Once upon a time, yes, but I don't recall the exact length off the top of my head. I have a Sako 223 which I assume is about the same and its around 2.3" max OAL to fit in the mag. It is however throated to run rounds of 2.600" OAL with 80 grain SMKs. (Single shot hand feeding rounds - not mag fed)
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T3x CTR 223 magazine, 2.5" OAL. Here's a 75gr Amax loaded to engage the lands

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Maple57 said:
Last time I checked the rules for PRS limit 223 to 77 grain projectiles.

I read rumors a while back that they were going to change that....

Has anybody heard anything about changes to that rule?

I suppose we could run 88s for PRS but then we'd be competing in open division.
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PRS rules haven't changed and we use the same rules here for the BCPRL. I don't imagine they'd bother changing the rules as the best military ammo you can get is the mk262 with the 77gr bullets and that's kinda the point of Tac class. Also, no one cares about Tac class so I imagine they'll keep on ignoring it, haha.
 
Maple57 said:
Nice rifle but unfortunately incapable of performing well at long range in 223 when feeding from a mag.

Tikka makes 223 actions shorter than the short action Remington. Since the short action Rem 700 can feed from AI mags which are long enough for a 308, it allows a hand loader to seat the 223 bullets extra long and increase the case capacity with heavy bullets. That in turn allows for maximum possible velocity.
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As much as Tikka and Sako make nice rifles, and they offer about 5 action lengths that are ideally suited to the SAMMI spec loads, they are limited when it comes to long range rounds using heavy VLDs and non standard OAL dimensions.

Rem 700 only come in short action and long action. The dimensions of the short action work well with 223 from an AI mag and the long action is actually better even for a 308 where heavy long range loads can be too long to feed or eject from the short action.

An AI pattern 223 mag will allow rounds as long as 2.5" to 2.6" depending on the manufacturer, and you can modify the mag to run them even longer.

That leaves an extra 0.2 to 0.3" of case capacity, so you can safely run a larger powder charge.

You wont be able to do that with a Tikka in 223,
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Quoi? The only issue with Tikkas in .223 is the OEM mag length in the Varmint.

The action is MORE than long enough to accommodate 2.6" OAL. There's zero issue at all with using AICS mags. They take a tiny bit of modifying on the outside of the feed lips to fit the action, but that's it. No issue seating out as long as you possibly can. Plus they're throated nice and long out of the box.

I mean, even if the action length *was* an issue, that's a literal five minute fix - modify the bolt stop or replace it with a shorter one.

I was shooting 75 AMaxes at 2.5" over a case full of Varget for 3050 fps, feeding out of AICS mags without a hiccup from a T3 Varmint in an MDT chassis.
 
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Mike112288 said:
Nice! 3050 FPS with 75’s is real good
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Zero pressure signs. Basically with the AMaxes seated that long you couldn't stuff enough Varget in the case to get too hot. It was an excellent combo. I haven't tried the new ELDs but I would hope they would perform the same.
 
Maple57 said:
I would say that a guy who does not finish in the top 30 percent in PRS, would likely be better off to compete with a 223, because a high performance cartridge is not going to make the difference for him.

From a technical perspective, larger calibers are inherently more consistent due to economies of scale.

For example a 0.2 grain powder variance with 50 grains of powder is half that volumetric percentage change of the same 0.2 grain powder variance with 25 grains of powder.

So its hard to get real low SDs with a 223 unless you are a heck of a good hand loader.

While this is true on a chalk board, in reality, especially in the context of PRS, it wont be the reason you missed the plate.

Advantages of the 223 is low recoil and better stamina over the entirety of the weekend.

If conditions are calm or at least steady, the 223 can chase a 308 very well particularly out to 800 yards.

If there is a disadvantage to the 223 it's spotting impacts. Several times at the end of a stage spotters have told me that I got more hits than they called. They added points back in at the end of the stage, but it still cost me points because I adjusted my point of aim after the un called hit.

Meaford last year used indicator lights though and that saved my bacon with the 223 and hits registered on the moose at 860 yards. So it still hits hard enough to ring the bell at that distance.

Anyone interested in going with a 223 for long range needs to make sure the rifle feeds from an AI mag and is chambered so the cartridge OAL is at least 2.500". If you cant feed the long rounds, then you will be much more limited.
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Spot on! I have found this to be very true as well. But you can get great results with a 77 gr loaded to AR max mag length as well
 
I'm in the same position, I can only shoot 300, so .223 it is! Plus I reload and can use the same powders and brass etc in my bolt guns or my AR's! Also don't rule out the plain old .22LR! lots of us shoot out to 300, its challenging, fun and cheap!
 
Jamie said:
Spot on! I have found this to be very true as well. But you can get great results with a 77 gr loaded to AR max mag length as well
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Great results is a relative term.

The 77 grain SMK is not a VLD bullet and has a short tip so it can be seated to mag length and be close to the lands. It's really a compromise round to accommodate AR mags.

The load I'm describing allows the heavy and long tipped VLD bullets to sit further out of the case which increases case capacity, and with the bearing surface close to the lands.

To put for example a Berger 80 grain bullet into a 223 case and seated to an OAL of 2.25" to suit an AR mag, you would have the bullet so far into the case that the bearing surface would begin somewhere below the neck, and the jump to the lands even with a short standard throat would render the load useless.

This scenario can be problematic with many traditional action lengths with VLD loads.

Loading for F-Class has become such a habit for me over the years (loading for single round feed) that I run into challenges when loading to feed from a mag where mag length limitations will constrict our bullet options. Some bullets when seated to mag length can jam the lands while others must jump a ridiculous amount. That jump invariably determines what load is or is not acceptable.

Selecting an action and mag that is long enough to provide the flexibility to address this point is the story when developing a system for long range shooting from a mag.
 
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