Bear Defence shotgun questions (bear with me please)......

Dodosmike

Dodosmike

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In the sticks near North Bay ON!
Ive read a big long thread, thats 2 years (or more) old about a member here kitting out a 12G bear "defence" gun.

Ive narrowed my shotgun down to three, but then read here, somewhere about a "870 clone". Accepts 870 aftermarket parts, but cannot find the thread to re-read it. Can somebody point me in the right direction?

Barrels. Figured 18.5" for legal reasons, then see 10" and 14" barrelled guns in the EE for sale. Are these legal (Ontario)? (slugs only, no buckshot or 00 for this dude, not up for debate.
95% sure ill never hunt with his gun, as I have others. So if its not for hunting purposes, but critter defence, does that mean I don't need to adhere to the 2+1 rule in Ontario?


Syn stocked, ceracoated or stainless. No blueing.
Rem 870 Tactical or Winchester sxp tactical or Canuck Commander or Defender

I'm digging the dark earth color, is it an application or is it molded that colour? (will it wear off is my issue)

Canuck Commander, never had a pistol grip gun, other than a pistol. Is it comfortable with a shotgun? Recoil in the hand uncomfortable?

My choice will have a fiberoptic bead, peep rear, no sling and a light.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/products/shotguns/sxp/SXP-Current-Products/sxp-ultimate-defender.html
https://tillsonburggunshop.com/Canuck%20Commander%20Pump%20Shotgun%20Bronze%2012%20ga%203%22%2014%22%20Barrel
https://tillsonburggunshop.com/Canuck-Regulator-Defender-Combo-12-Gauge-3-14-Barrel-Pump-Action-Shotgun-Canada
https://www.sail.ca/en/remington-model-870-express-tactical-magpul-cal-12-3-pump-action-shotgun-637365
(not necessarily these retailers, but its somewhere where I found the links quickly)


What else should I be looking at? Simple, reliable and easy to get fixed if ever need be. Never considered a semi, just because I'm familiar with a pump action.
Didn't like the feel of the Mossberg guns I fondled.
Don't need multiple barrels.
No 20's, as I've got two 12's now and don't want/need to get ammo mixed up.



Thoughts?
 
I would not be choosing a knock off cheap gun for my personal defense.
A rifle sight smooth bore 12 gauge pump - 870 Remington is ideal.
An Ithaca Deerslayer was the gun of choice when they were the only one in the market. It would serve admirably today.
 
Dodosmike said:
I
Barrels. Figured 18.5" for legal reasons, then see 10" and 14" barrelled guns in the EE for sale. Are these legal (Ontario)? (slugs only, no buckshot or 00 for this dude, not up for debate.
95% sure ill never hunt with his gun, as I have others. So if its not for hunting purposes, but critter defence, does that mean I don't need to adhere to the 2+1 rule in Ontario?
Click to expand...

1) Those barrels are legal if they are manufactured that way (yet another part of our messy CDN laws)
2) 2+1 in hunting season is my very very strong recommendation. Yes the argument could be made thats its defense and all, but do you want that argument to be happening in a court room 6 months after all your stuff was taken and you had to walk home. Outside of hunting run a full load

Those really short barrels usually have limited capacity as the tube is also short so you may end up at 2+1 anyway.

Question:
are you carrying the gun or will it be on a Quad?

I originally though i wanted a super compact gun but then realized i just wanted something that was shorter than my ATV handlebars so it doesnt get hung up in the bush.
 
Self defense guns tend to be works in progress. Since the fit of the gun is critical to your performance with it, and since fit can change with the seasonal clothing you wear, an adjustable stock like Magpul's SGA would be worth while. Since you'll fight with the ammo that's in the gun or on the gun, a side saddle shell holder is worth while. I prefer a ghostring rear and a post front sight since the post provides an index of elevation. That's not to say a bead can't work, but for me they aren't as fast.
 
Dodosmike said:
why?
Click to expand...

It's an old gun guy joke.

Whatever shotgun you get, make it one that you shoot well at the range that you will be shooting at and is reliable 100% with the shells you will be using.

I like 14" pumps for reliability and ease of transport, ghost ring sights for slugs from 0-25 yards and a mounted light because bad things mostly happen at noght.
 
Jmcc said:
1) Those barrels are legal if they are manufactured that way (yet another part of our messy CDN laws)
2) 2+1 in hunting season is my very very strong recommendation. Yes the argument could be made thats its defense and all, but do you want that argument to be happening in a court room 6 months after all your stuff was taken and you had to walk home. Outside of hunting run a full load

Those really short barrels usually have limited capacity as the tube is also short so you may end up at 2+1 anyway.

Question:
are you carrying the gun or will it be on a Quad?

I originally though i wanted a super compact gun but then realized i just wanted something that was shorter than my ATV handlebars so it doesnt get hung up in the bush.
Click to expand...

Most of the time it'll be sitting on a gun rack in the camp, above the door. Possible it'd be across a bike rack though.
As for "in season carry", yeah I can see carrying 2+1 being wise. And if a bear comes knocking, if I need anymore than 3 (arguably + the side sadle) then Im doing something wrong.
 
Boomer said:
Self defense guns tend to be works in progress. Since the fit of the gun is critical to your performance with it, and since fit can change with the seasonal clothing you wear, an adjustable stock like Magpul's SGA would be worth while. Since you'll fight with the ammo that's in the gun or on the gun, a side saddle shell holder is worth while. I prefer a ghostring rear and a post front sight since the post provides an index of elevation. That's not to say a bead can't work, but for me they aren't as fast.
Click to expand...


Forgive me, but "ghost ring", is just a peep sight with a bigger opening, right?

Was thinking something like this:
https://ii.cheaperthandirt.com/fcgi...rt/source/36988_1.tif&qlt=75&wid=275&cvt=jpeg
 
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Dodosmike said:
Most of the time it'll be sitting on a gun rack in the camp, above the door. Possible it'd be across a bike rack though.
As for "in season carry", yeah I can see carrying 2+1 being wise. And if a bear comes knocking, if I need anymore than 3 (arguably + the side sadle) then Im doing something wrong.
Click to expand...

since weight isnt such an issue go 18.5
That way its not just limited to a 1 purpose gun

I'm doing the same thing.
 
Dodosmike said:
Most of the time it'll be sitting on a gun rack in the camp, above the door. Possible it'd be across a bike rack though.
As for "in season carry", yeah I can see carrying 2+1 being wise. And if a bear comes knocking, if I need anymore than 3 (arguably + the side sadle) then Im doing something wrong.
Click to expand...


If it’s mostly going to be hanging above a door or on a vehicle, then it would mostly be unloaded until it is needed, I am assuming?

If so, you want to look at a detach mag shotgun. I recommend the Rem 870 DM with Magpul stock in a pump gun.
 
For me I want the following in a camp/bear/defender shotgun:

12g and something proven reliable, 870 or 500/590
Tube fed
12.5” to 20” barrel threaded for chokes
Fiber optic rifle sights or a quality ghost ring sight
Sturdy quick adjust sling like a Vickers sling
Standard field stock with a good recoil pad that fits me, preferably synthetic lighter weight
A light mount and a flashlight

I prefer an 870, they work well and have lots of aftermarket support. If you want to upgrade internal parts like mag tube followers and springs, jumbo safety, sling mounts which make it more reliable and user friendly it’s simple to do so. Since you will be shooting slugs you want sights you can adjust so poa/poi at whatever distance you like, bead sights are fine for shot but I want something adjustable for slugs. I’d try to keep my shotgun simple, lightweight and reliable.

A 14” barrel with proper sights would be about perfect, long enough for a decent sight radius but short enough for walking in the thick bush or when slung over your shoulder it won’t get caught on everything. A bead sight on a short barrel equals a shotgun that shoots high, adjustable sights or a taller front sight post compensate for this.
 
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EQDkAx7l.jpg
 
Mag fed gun not really you will always be looking for the mag . A saddle on the butt stock with 5 rounds in it you will be able to load in milliseconds.
 
lanis said:
Nice gun, can you list what you got there?

Cheers,
Dan
Click to expand...

It's a bit embarrassing, one of those builds that kept on going...……..

Started with a Marstar HP9-1 14". Reliability testing with around 200 rounds proved it was 100% functioning.

Then I had Rustywood install Winchokes (modified in there now), Wilson Trac Loc ghost ring sights with a tritium front sight, a +1 mag extension/sling loop and polymer follower from Bad Boy Beeson, a good (can't remember brand) 7 round side saddle, a Surefire forend light upgraded to a 1 cell Malkoff device, Spec Ops recoil reducing adjustable stock and topped off with cheap VISM 2 point sling that is wide and works well.

It is dead reliable. So reliable it is my bedroom closet gun.
 
Dodosmike said:
Forgive me, but "ghost ring", is just a peep sight with a bigger opening, right?

Was thinking something like this:
https://ii.cheaperthandirt.com/fcgi...rt/source/36988_1.tif&qlt=75&wid=275&cvt=jpeg
Click to expand...

Correct, aperture provides the confirmation that your eye is lined up with the front sight the same way each time, then it "ghosts" out of your vision when you focus on the front sight.



Geo's comment about the light mounted to the gun is right on, just on less thing to go looking for when things start to go wrong.
 
Boomer said:
Correct, aperture provides the confirmation that your eye is lined up with the front sight the same way each time, then it "ghosts" out of your vision when you focus on the front sight.



Geo's comment about the light mounted to the gun is right on, just on less thing to go looking for when things start to go wrong.
Click to expand...

Having had the 3 AM pleasure of holding a pump action shotgun and trying to aim it at the bear in the kitchen tent while holding a 2 D cell Maglight at the same time I had to conclude that a weapon mounted light really is the way to go for your camp/field guns.
 
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