.338 Federal or .358 Win - possible short action sub sonic cartridges?

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Astute Observer

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Hey all, I'm got a pipe dream about building a short action bolt action brush gun, with a sub sonic bullet that still packs a punch. Idea would be to hunt (everything from coyote to deer) on my uncle's rural property but keep sound down (too bad we can't shoot suppressed) to keep his neighbours happy.

I have a spare savage 10 action and .308 bolt face to use... And I reload so I have a bunch of cases for .308 Win, as well as some250 and 300 grain .338 Lapua bullets. So really hoping to use that instead of say a new rifle in .300 blackout, .450 Bushmaster or .45 Long Colt or something.

With this in mind, would a short barrel rifle chambered in .338 Fed be an option that would meet my objective? Any powder options for a 14" barrel? Would the .358 Win be a better option?

Is such a thing even possible?

Thanks for the sanity check
 
Both would work but the 35 has more bullet choice, handgun bullets would work nicely on coyotes. The Speer 180 gr make the 35 a long range proposition for deer.
 
Perhaps someone here with the QuickLoad program could help you???
It would show whether or not there would be dangerous pressure issues...
As mentioned, the 358 Win's ability to shoot handgun bullets may be an option...but I could not say if that case would work with Trail Boss or some other pistol powder to achieve your desired results...I just do not have any experience with subsonic rounds. (and don't have to worry about the neighbours!)
I am a big fan of both the 338 Federal and the 358 Win!
 
I do like the handgun bullet idea. Hollow point / interbond / ELD-X type rifle bullets probably are manufactured to expand at supersonic velocity, handgun bullets might be better performing in terms of expansion at lower velocities
 
If you are going subsonic and planning to hunt then you want to shoot the heaviest bullet possible at subsonic speed, this will maximize the energy that you are putting out there... think 250 grain pills... the Hornady 250 SP-RP is available in both .338 and .358, and has a soft jacket that should give decent performance at subsonic speeds, personally I would go .358, because the longer the bullet the harder it is to stabilize, particularly at subsonic speeds and the .358 bullet will be shorter... but since this is a custom rifle you can adjust the twist and throat to suit your bore and bullet choices. Sounds like a fun project. I did something similar with a 7.62X39 build and ended up seating 174 grain boattail bullets backward, with excellent accuracy out to 75 yards.
 
I've got a bit of experience, with shooting deer with sub sonic loads, and suppressors as I have several on rifles in New Zealand, Larger bore is going to be the better choice here, heavy for cal cast lead is the ticket, pistol bullets may work, but you struggle to get them slow enough, to fully suppress, ir sub sonic.

I've got a .358 win, and I would be looking at 260-280gr, hard cast and trailboss, Running a pistol bullet at 1500fps, suppressed is fairly quite. jacket hunting bullets don't expand well at low speeds,

44 magnum is likely the most common, suppressed, hunting round I have come across, reasonably effective at close range. subsonic rounds, don't kill the same way as high velocity, mostly by blood loss, rather than tissue/shock damage.

Hopefully one day suppressors will be allowed
 
I'd go 358 Win for sure!. But, I am biased as I have a BLR takedown in 358 and just bought one of Prophet River's Ruger American's in 358 Win. The 358 Win is really handy with the options of the pistol loads and cast options. I use Reloder 7 behind a Hornady 158gr XTP and have it chronographed at just a touch over 3000fps. These vaporize squash and I am sure would do the same to coyotes.... never done this yet. The Speer 180 grain FP is a great bullet in 358 cal and with some TAC powder you could get these up to 2700fps without too much trouble. This is certainly no slouch for deer out a ways but as Hoyt said, a 30 cal bullet in 165-180 grain range will have a much better BC for those extended ranges.

I have never loaded subsonics in my 35 cals (of which I own a few) but one certainly could look at the 310 grain Woodleighs to be used for this application..... I may just have to load some of these up;)
 
Of course a suppressor would make a big difference to the noise of a shot, but is not legal in Canada. So subsonic loads will help reduce noise, but not very much in my opinion. This concept has been done long ago. with muzzle loaders. I suggest you think of just how a muzzle loader works and how noisy it is. I don't think you'll gain any meaningful "quietness" by shooting an unsupressed rifle with a bullet big enough to hunt deer with. A muzzle loader shooting a .45 - .50 caliber bullet at a maximum of 1100 fps to stay subsonic has a report that is still quite noticeable in my opinion.
If you decide to proceed, bullet choice is quite important. In order for your .35 caliber bullets to be effective on deer, at such a low speed, I'd suggest staying away from all jacketed bullets and only consider a 250 - 300 grain flat nose cast of almost pure lead and well lubricated or powder coated. Even a bullet made of wheel weight metal may be too hard to expand. A hollow point design would help too. There are several bullet mould manufacturers who could help you with a custom mould.
 
Longwalker said:
In order for your .35 caliber bullets to be effective on deer, at such a low speed, I'd suggest staying away from all jacketed bullets and only consider a 250 - 300 grain flat nose cast of almost pure lead and well lubricated or powder coated. Even a bullet made of wheel weight metal may be too hard to expand. A hollow point design would help too. There are several bullet mould manufacturers who could help you with a custom mould.
Click to expand...

Thanks! bullet selection is critical, and the .35s have some decent hollow point pistol bullets that are designed to expand at slower speeds than most rifle bullets.

Longwalker said:
subsonic loads will help reduce noise, but not very much in my opinion.
Click to expand...

As for the noise, I get that the noise at the point of firing would still be loud - a suppressor would be ideal. But even to mitigate the sound somewhat is what I'd be looking for. My thinking was that a bullet that's supersonic through it's entire flight still makes a loud noise along its entire path, while a subsonic bullet only makes a loud noise at its point of origin. For the layout of the land I'd be shooting in, that could make a difference.

Not to throw a spanner into the works at this point, but there's also the .375 Raptor or the .45 Raptor I just read about that might also suit my purposes. Both are also in a short action case that fits a .308 bolt face.
 
yes.. 45raptor is what I'm looking at and I do own a .338fed
.338 federal is very popular in the Suppressed AR-10 style rifle crowd in the USA. Recently I spent a few hours on youtube going down the suppressed .338fed rabbit hole LOL
I also want a small, light , close quarters bolt action primarily for coastal deer in very rugged terrain with most shots being up close and personal.
I'd like to build mine on a lee enfield action (shtle 3*) but not sure I'd ever find a barrel let alone the cost of the modifications needed might make it a silly idea.

gonna follow along and see what you come up with
 
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