paying for access to land

[flashman2]

When you've had multiple posts on various threads, playing the self sympathy card of property rights, yes they do count. Rights, fees, self sympathy= Liberalism. You don't echo the sounds of "the good ole" Saskatchewan farmer.

Wut?

Private property rights and charging what the market will bear for a product is "Liberalism?"

First off, I suspect you meant small - l liberalism.

Secondly - what in the intergalactic ####?

We must have different definitions of the meaning of the word.

I've never owned property I can hunt on. It's all been crown and private land. I could never for a second imagine having an issue with a landowner wanting to benefit from my use of their land which I also benefit from. It's called pulling your weight.

 

[Papaclaude]

Lots of hunters don't mind paying for $65K trucks, $20K ATV's, expensive guns, Swarovski optics and beer, but ask them to spend a few dollars supporting pro gun organizations or pay to access private property and they misplace their wallet.

Private land is private, if the owner wants you to pay for access you either pay it or leave. Grumbling about it doesn't change anything except make someone more miserable than they already are.

Wut?

Private property rights and charging what the market will bear for a product is "Liberalism?"

First off, I suspect you meant small - l liberalism.

Secondly - what in the intergalactic ####?

We must have different definitions of the meaning of the word.

I've never owned property I can hunt on. It's all been crown and private land. I could never for a second imagine having an issue with a landowner wanting to benefit from my use of their land which I also benefit from. It's called pulling your weight.

Some guys will hold their breath 'til they go blue in the face at the mere mention that the Gubmint may confiscate guns without compensation. "How dare they take my private property. I paid for it!!!", yet if a landowner, who not only paid for it, but continues to pay in the form of interest, taxes and upkeep, says he/she wants to charge a reasonable amount to afford you the privilege of hunting on their private property, "Well!!!! How dare they!!!" A lot of landowners have found a way to deal with such guys. Here in Ontario, red circles painted on trees on the property perimeter, and some "No hunting" or "No trespassing" signs.

 

[flashman2]

Some guys will hold their breath 'til they go blue in the face at the mere mention that the Gubmint may confiscate guns without compensation. "How dare they take my private property. I paid for it!!!", yet if a landowner, who not only paid for it, but continues to pay in the form of interest, taxes and upkeep, says he/she wants to charge a reasonable amount to afford you the privilege of hunting on their private property, "Well!!!! How dare they!!!" A lot of landowners have found a way to deal with such guys. Here in Ontario, red circles painted on trees on the property perimeter, and some "No hunting" or "No trespassing" signs.

Seriously. It's delusional.

 

[Papaclaude]

Seriously. It's delusional.

I seriously can't figure out how a group that is so mindful of their rights and privileges, and so vocal about any perceived assault on them, can care so little about the rights and privileges of others - not just on the land issue, but pretty much across the spectrum of issues: freedom of speech, freedom of association, due process, presumption of innocence, you name it.

 

[guy329]

I seriously can't figure out how a group that is so mindful of their rights and privileges, and so vocal about any perceived assault on them, can care so little about the rights and privileges of others - not just on the land issue, but pretty much across the spectrum of issues: freedom of speech, freedom of association, due process, presumption of innocence, you name it.

A mystery to me as well. Private property is private, period. Just like my guns.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

Jealousy is a terrible sickness, that is all it is, you have land to hunt on, and somebody else doesn't, so they figure they have as much right to it.

Private, stay the F off!!

If owners says pay for access , go hard.

Other than that find crown land and quit crying, you'll live longer.

 

[flashman2]

I seriously can't figure out how a group that is so mindful of their rights and privileges, and so vocal about any perceived assault on them, can care so little about the rights and privileges of others - not just on the land issue, but pretty much across the spectrum of issues: freedom of speech, freedom of association, due process, presumption of innocence, you name it.

I've wondered the same thing for decades too.

Best I've come up with is it's because they're morally and intellectually dishonest, and self interested to the point that it messes up their thinking.

Interestingly, and somewhat of a mind blower for me when I moved here, is that in NS you CAN'T prohibit people from hunting, camping, hiking etc on your property. If it's forested land, you can't keep people doing most outdoor activities off it. There's some restrictions, like distances from buildings etc, but basically any land you can reasonably hunt is open season.

So, I abandoned the idea of buying some land to manage for deer and put it into my boat instead. I could have bought a few dozen acres of prime deer hunting land for a pittance. But... with the laws here, I have no incentive to buy land and manage it for deer if anyone can come hunt it and there's nothing I can do about it short of a civil lawsuit. Locals here are as wedded to the idea of access to private land as they are to subsidies for the fishing industry and socialized healthcare (not to say I'm against those things.) They view access to private land as a birthright, basically. It's messed up.

 

[Lastgun]

Kelly, Papaclaude, Flashman and others nailed it...Land and the resources on it are perceived differently depending on what side of the fence one stands on...I have been called a prick and worse when I wouldn't let local loggers on my place to "share" the trees...Same thing when I tell local hunters no to hunting my alfalfa fields..."But that's where most of the deer and elk are, don't you want to share?"

I had a native hunter ask if he could hunt on a field of mine he noticed was full of whitetail each evening...He could tell I was hesitant and uncomfortable with the request...He just smiled and said "Ahhh those deer are for youuu, I understand"...He sure had more common sense then the locals.

I paid plenty for the land and pay plenty to keep it and keep it in shape...I have non resident tags that help defer the costs...They sure don't mind paying instead of sharing.

 

[1963beretta]

I cant fathom the idea that you cant prohibit people from accessing your land. In what the hell country do we live in????

There’s an old saying.....”since you like my land so much, you’ll be buried under it”

 

[Butcherbill]

There’s an old saying.....”since you like my land so much, you’ll be buried under it”

I like that, I’m going to remember that one for future use.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

Not sure if I mentioned it in this thread, but I and many other are appalled at the stance SWF took with the trespassing laws.

Of all the groups that should of been in support of land owners rights it should of been them, then don't even know the underlying factors of conservation it seems , not to mention what personal and private mean.

They are basically crying that hunters have to ask for permission? Seriously ? It just goes to show you what kind of inbred hillbillies are spokespeople( I didn't say spokesman ) for some of these organizations.

SWF executive director Darrell Crabbe said while this is true, making it a must-have before hunting presents some major hurdles.

Hurdles, which you could interpret as "the right and lawful and moral way"

I'm just not sure where the disconnect in the cranium comes from , you don't go ask to use your neighbors pressure washer , or bang their spouse , suntan in their lounger.It would be exactly the same as stretching a power cord out to the house next door without asking and reasoning it with paying taxes and saskpower anyways.

 

[track]

Not sure if I mentioned it in this thread, but I and many other are appalled at the stance SWF took with the trespassing laws.

Of all the groups that should of been in support of land owners rights it should of been them, then don't even know the underlying factors of conservation it seems , not to mention what personal and private mean.

They are basically crying that hunters have to ask for permission? Seriously ? It just goes to show you what kind of inbred hillbillies are spokespeople( I didn't say spokesman ) for some of these organizations.

SWF executive director Darrell Crabbe said while this is true, making it a must-have before hunting presents some major hurdles.

Hurdles, which you could interpret as "the right and lawful and moral way"

I'm just not sure where the disconnect in the cranium comes from , you don't go ask to use your neighbors pressure washer , or bang their spouse , suntan in their lounger.It would be exactly the same as stretching a power cord out to the house next door without asking and reasoning it with paying taxes and saskpower anyways.

I agree with you, that permission should be asked, 100% of the time. There is absolutely no excuse not to ask for permission. If a landowner say "no" then it's "NO." However, pay for access is opening a can of worms, which is most unorthodox in the western provinces. My best guess is that the hunting community would not be happy. I'm aware that yourself and Dogleg are advocates of pay for access. My question is,"what would you charge to hunt whitetail for a day or a week?

 

[Papaclaude]

I agree with you, that permission should be asked, 100% of the time. There is absolutely no excuse not to ask for permission. If a landowner say "no" then it's "NO." However, pay for access is opening a can of worms, which is most unorthodox in the western provinces. My best guess is that the hunting community would not be happy. I'm aware that yourself and Dogleg are advocates of pay for access. My question is,"what would you charge to hunt whitetail for a day or a week?

Personally, I'm not for nor against paying for access. I feel that a landowner owns the property and should be free to keep it to himself/herself, sell it, lend it out or rent it. Just like my firearms, my car, my house, or anything else. If there are legal requirements around it, make sure the person is in compliance, and go for it. Now, the person paying for access should have the right to ask for a receipt, but I have a sneaky feeling the landowner would tell the prospective hunter to go take a long walk off a short dock.

 

[Dogleg]

I dunno; can i borrow your truck and rifles for a couple weeks while I think about it?��

 

[Papaclaude]

I dunno; can i borrow your truck and rifles for a couple weeks while I think about it?��

Don't have a truck - just 2 Grand Caravans, but if you were around here and my internal alarm bells didn't go off, I would probably lend you a rifle (providing you have a valid PAL). I loaned a spotting scope to a couple young fellas at the range a while back. I had 2, was heading back, so... My point was, it's my property to do with as I choose, just like your land is your property to use as you wish.

I was looking at a piece of land several years ago that a snowmobile/ATV trail crosses. If I had bought it, I would have rescinded the right of way in order to set up a small shooting range, but even if it was just because I don't like motor vehicles, it should have been my right to do so.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

I agree with you, that permission should be asked, 100% of the time. There is absolutely no excuse not to ask for permission. If a landowner say "no" then it's "NO." However, pay for access is opening a can of worms, which is most unorthodox in the western provinces. My best guess is that the hunting community would not be happy. I'm aware that yourself and Dogleg are advocates of pay for access. My question is,"what would you charge to hunt whitetail for a day or a week?

Annual taxes divided by 52.

Monthly rent or mortgage payment divided by 4.

Annual cost for insurance divided by 4.

Annual cost of haying , agricultural inputs , equipment cost , maintenance ,divided by 52.

My time for dealing with the user.

Although I don't have a concrete number for this you can see how it is easy to derive a value.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

I dunno; can i borrow your truck and rifles for a couple weeks while I think about it?��

Yes, and bring it back full of jerky and sausage and a brunette or two , no problem,

Actually, the meanest trick I could play on someone is lend them my truck, 6.0L Gas, 4.10 gears , 4 spd , just bring it back full!!

 

[track]

Annual taxes divided by 52.

Monthly rent or mortgage payment divided by 4.

Annual cost for insurance divided by 4.

Annual cost of haying , agricultural inputs , equipment cost , maintenance ,divided by 52.

My time for dealing with the user.

Although I don't have a concrete number for this you can see how it is easy to derive a value.

Well, I guess it depends on supply and demand. If there is a going fee rate, I guess most landowners would charge the same, pending on how much land, quality and quantity of wildlife, not including all expenses to operate the farm. From your figures, it may cost at least $2,000 per day. I don't think hordes of hunters will be knocking on those doors, leaving the landowner with over population of animals, decimating their crop/yield.

 

[Papaclaude]

Well, I guess it depends on supply and demand. If there is a going fee rate, I guess most landowners would charge the same, pending on how much land, quality and quantity of wildlife, not including all expenses to operate the farm. From your figures, it may cost at least $2,000 per day. I don't think hordes of hunters will be knocking on those doors, leaving the landowner with over population of animals, decimating their crop/yield.

I don't think iy would be worth anywhere near $2,000 per day, but if the landowner wants to ask that much, then it's up to the prospective "clients" to decide if they want to pay that. As far as the overpopulation of critters, then again, it's up to the landowner to decide (within applicable laws, of course) on how to deal with it.

If I decide to list my house on AirBnB, I can ask $2,000 per day - I won't get it, but I can ask it. Even if I make the calculations and figure out value of the house, depreciation, insurance, utilities, taxes, maintenance and all other costs, plus a "reasonable" profit, I will come up with a number no one is prepared to pay. And if, as a result of my house being unoccupied, I end up with a rodent infestation, it will be my problem to deal with.

 

[Kelly Timoffee]

Well, I guess it depends on supply and demand. If there is a going fee rate, I guess most landowners would charge the same, pending on how much land, quality and quantity of wildlife, not including all expenses to operate the farm. From your figures, it may cost at least $2,000 per day. I don't think hordes of hunters will be knocking on those doors, leaving the landowner with over population of animals, decimating their crop/yield.

Then I guess they can pull the trigger and buy their own land or hunting spot. See where this is going?

If a land owner is having wildlife problems I'm sure, just like in the past, they will have a way to handle it at their discretion but using the pre-arguement of, what about wildlife over running it is just an excuse to justify access.