In a boat, if you don't have a fancy schmancy waterproof floating shotgun case, tying a float like an empty windshield wash jug to your shotgun case is not a bad idea. A length of pool noodle and bungies work really well too but you have to be the sort who plans ahead...……...
Bear Defence shotgun questions (bear with me please)......
- Thread starter Dodosmike
- Start date
This is true, you read of so many guns being lost on canoe trips and such that it amounts to a national tragedy....
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
floating device for dog work very good too ...
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Are you suggesting it shouldn't be?
Yes, a loaded gun is indeed loaded. But then again, wise people also treat an unloaded gun as loaded.
I can’t recall ever picking up a gun that wasn’t loaded.
i hope you mean always consider it loaded,not that you store and transport them loaded.your statement is ambiguous.
Get a bigger gun . I watched a friend who was a fisheries stream keeper put 6 slugs into a small ish blackbear the last one was into the head with the barrel almost touching he skull between his feet. Shots were in the heart and both front shoulders busted and a lung shot with 2 in the skull one penetrated (the last one) and it just kept coming. Oh and they don't care about the color either.
These are the Chinese clones of the 870 ..... Norinco and Dominion Arms. Stay with the 12.5” or 14” barrels .... anything shorter requires shorter, modified action bars and mag tubes. The 12.5” and 14” are just simple barrel swaps to change out, if you’d later like a longer barrel.
People like these clones because they’re made with all metal parts unlike the newer 870 expresses. They are a little rough looking and heavy, but take all 870 parts.
I’d stay away from the Turkish shotguns for bears ... the ones I’ve handled seem delicate and parts are not 100% interchangeable even amongst Turkish Guns, so you better not break a part.
Go, 870 or clone of 870 or Mossberg.
870 is most easily modified with aftermarket parts.
The short 870 barrels of the Chinese kind can only be found on the EE as no one is currently bringing them in. An old wingmaster is good too with a short barrel of factory, Chinese, or Dlask variety.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
The 870 clones are good guns, with some de burring and light polishing the action can be as smooth or smoother than an actual 870. 870 parts fit them from my experience, they’re heavier though. The DA and norc synthetic stocks weigh a ton, another thing is they don’t have the flexi tab upgrade on the lifter or breach bolt assembly. The forend tube/action bar is a c hair thicker in o.d. then the factory Rem tube, you have to sand out the inside of most forends in order to get them on and off easily.
Once you polish or break the action in, upgrade the stock set, follower, mag spring you have a really smooth reliable short 12g. I need to weigh the bare action of the clone vs. a Rem 870, I suspect the receiver of the clone is heavier than the Rem. I’ve compared them when complete and the clones are still heavier.
Once you polish or break the action in, upgrade the stock set, follower, mag spring you have a really smooth reliable short 12g. I need to weigh the bare action of the clone vs. a Rem 870, I suspect the receiver of the clone is heavier than the Rem. I’ve compared them when complete and the clones are still heavier.
I've owned/shot Remingtons for over 30 years, and feel I know 870s inside out. I've also had 2 of the Norinco "Grizzlies" with 12.5" barrels (870 "clones") the first with a ghost ring set-up..the secong a bead sight. I've also carried 870s (12 and 20ga) while grouse hunting here in Ontario, 5-8km hikes on beat-up logging, and ATV trails...mostly not seeing or shooting birds. lol
My advice~buy a Mossberg.
About the only thing the Remington has over the Mossberg is how intuitive it is to tear down/work on. The Mossberg 500 isn't allot more complicated, but I don't find it quite as straight forward, either. The reason I suggest the Mossberg has to do with the weight. They have aluminum receivers which might not seem like much, but weight + time=extra fatigue...and long carries might have you questioning the choice of a steel receiver. My 870 sensibilities were rattled when I got a chance to shoot a buddy's model 500 Persuader, one of the earlier ones with a full length mag tube, parkerized finish, etc. As slick as any 870 Wingmaster I've owned or shot. They don't offer that exact model in that finish anymore, but do have shiny/blued. To get into a parkerized model, you have to wade through Mossberg's evolving selection of models. A year or so back, I started seeing models like the "590 Tactical", a parkerized gun missing the A1 designation. Maybe the same, or similar to the older 500 I have? Not sure. Anyhow, I'd also echo what someone else mentioned about it looking like a hunting gun. There is merit in that....and weight savings. (shorter mag tube)
So, I've had a bad bear experience when I had no gun or bear spray...but having now carried both for the job, I've yet to have an encounter...which is fine with me. lol It's rare that I bring a gun with me now, but it's the Mossberg when I do. I firmly believe in parkerizing as a good utility finish that fights corrosion well. (designed to hold/trap the oil you wipe it with if I understand that right) I also think that a bead sight is the best~less to snag on. I also believe that being good with the shotgun matters more than the finish it has, so practice practice and practice some more.
Here is a small photo of my Mossberg~so much fun to shoot I dragged it out to Alberta for some fun times with the gophers. Sometimes they charge you, and leave you no other option.
My advice~buy a Mossberg.
About the only thing the Remington has over the Mossberg is how intuitive it is to tear down/work on. The Mossberg 500 isn't allot more complicated, but I don't find it quite as straight forward, either. The reason I suggest the Mossberg has to do with the weight. They have aluminum receivers which might not seem like much, but weight + time=extra fatigue...and long carries might have you questioning the choice of a steel receiver. My 870 sensibilities were rattled when I got a chance to shoot a buddy's model 500 Persuader, one of the earlier ones with a full length mag tube, parkerized finish, etc. As slick as any 870 Wingmaster I've owned or shot. They don't offer that exact model in that finish anymore, but do have shiny/blued. To get into a parkerized model, you have to wade through Mossberg's evolving selection of models. A year or so back, I started seeing models like the "590 Tactical", a parkerized gun missing the A1 designation. Maybe the same, or similar to the older 500 I have? Not sure. Anyhow, I'd also echo what someone else mentioned about it looking like a hunting gun. There is merit in that....and weight savings. (shorter mag tube)
So, I've had a bad bear experience when I had no gun or bear spray...but having now carried both for the job, I've yet to have an encounter...which is fine with me. lol It's rare that I bring a gun with me now, but it's the Mossberg when I do. I firmly believe in parkerizing as a good utility finish that fights corrosion well. (designed to hold/trap the oil you wipe it with if I understand that right) I also think that a bead sight is the best~less to snag on. I also believe that being good with the shotgun matters more than the finish it has, so practice practice and practice some more.
Here is a small photo of my Mossberg~so much fun to shoot I dragged it out to Alberta for some fun times with the gophers. Sometimes they charge you, and leave you no other option.
Well, I'm no further ahead in my quest for a bear defence gun.
Thanks for the info on the Chinese 870 knockoffs. Almost pulled the trigger on a Canuck, but didn't like the feel of it in my hand. Yeah it was heavy.
Ive narrowed my search parameters, have sent emails and PM's to a few on the EE and Gunp0st and have a few irons in the fire.
Laminated wood> black
Pump>DropMag
870> mossberg (didn't like the feel of it in my hands, but it was a long barrelled gun)
870 supermag>tactical (for barrel interchangeability)
14" or 18"> 24"+
3"> 2.75 (have a 3" Win 2200 to duck hunt with)
Ghost ring rear sight, blade front sight> bead
Pic rail on the forearm.
Found a dealer with a new Benelli Nova, 3" with a ghost ring for $650 taxes in. (no slide rail). Has a 10yr warranty, free shipping
Found a private sale, unfired 870 express with 14"barrel, 3" and pistol grip, for $525. (no rear sight or rail) No warranty, not transferable, so I'm told. +shipping from Alberta
+ $125 for sadle and rear sight whatever they're called, not the pic rail on top, but the one that bolts on. +$125(?) for a railed slide (for a light)
A new 870 express at Cabelas is $499 (24" rifle sights or smoothbore) for cost comparison. =$565 incl taxes.
Id ideally like a 870 supermag, wood, with a ghost sight on a 14" or 18" barrel. Odd combo, never seen one.
Are the new(ish, say in the last 10 years) 870's reliable and built well, compared to the late 70's versions?
The may long weekend my neighbour at his cottage (200 yards from mine), was in his outhouse (at 9pm) when a blackbear sow and a cub walked past his open door, 20' away. No gun. This is the exact scenario I want to avoid with my wife and son at the cottage, hence the gun. Short, relatively light, manouverable and enough firepower to eliminate the situation. Luckily the bear walked on by and never glanced his way.
Thanks for the info on the Chinese 870 knockoffs. Almost pulled the trigger on a Canuck, but didn't like the feel of it in my hand. Yeah it was heavy.
Ive narrowed my search parameters, have sent emails and PM's to a few on the EE and Gunp0st and have a few irons in the fire.
Laminated wood> black
Pump>DropMag
870> mossberg (didn't like the feel of it in my hands, but it was a long barrelled gun)
870 supermag>tactical (for barrel interchangeability)
14" or 18"> 24"+
3"> 2.75 (have a 3" Win 2200 to duck hunt with)
Ghost ring rear sight, blade front sight> bead
Pic rail on the forearm.
Found a dealer with a new Benelli Nova, 3" with a ghost ring for $650 taxes in. (no slide rail). Has a 10yr warranty, free shipping
Found a private sale, unfired 870 express with 14"barrel, 3" and pistol grip, for $525. (no rear sight or rail) No warranty, not transferable, so I'm told. +shipping from Alberta
+ $125 for sadle and rear sight whatever they're called, not the pic rail on top, but the one that bolts on. +$125(?) for a railed slide (for a light)
A new 870 express at Cabelas is $499 (24" rifle sights or smoothbore) for cost comparison. =$565 incl taxes.
Id ideally like a 870 supermag, wood, with a ghost sight on a 14" or 18" barrel. Odd combo, never seen one.
Are the new(ish, say in the last 10 years) 870's reliable and built well, compared to the late 70's versions?
The may long weekend my neighbour at his cottage (200 yards from mine), was in his outhouse (at 9pm) when a blackbear sow and a cub walked past his open door, 20' away. No gun. This is the exact scenario I want to avoid with my wife and son at the cottage, hence the gun. Short, relatively light, manouverable and enough firepower to eliminate the situation. Luckily the bear walked on by and never glanced his way.
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That bear must have gotten into a crystal meth or angel dust cooking operation, or maybe the shooter was using light slugs made for training and competition. But see post #22, which seems to contain sound advice.
- Location
- Blaster land, Okanagan BC
To give you an idea of weight, an 12.5”’barreled 870 clone with a hardwood Rem stock set and a sling is 7lbs unloaded. A Rem 870 with a 12.5” clone barrel, synthetic Rem stock set and sling is 6 lbs unloaded.
Well, my advice clearly didn't resonate...but I'll stoke the fire once more.
If a "hanging around the cottage" gun is what you're after, and you're set on the 870 platform..I saw in the recent Bass Pro flier that they were offering 870 Express for about $350. ($50 off of the $399 price) These were vent-rib guns, not the ideal slug launchers. Were I in your situation needing a gun for this purpose...a dedicated 870 slug gun with rifle-sights barrel and a reliable light=will do just fine. Were I looking, I'd FULLY ignore the 3-1/2"/870 Mag option unless you want to sling 3-1/2" steel shot at geese one day and really hate your shoulder. I'd even pass on a modern Express and look for an older 870 (Express or Wingmaster) already configured with the rifle sights. The latter will be a 2-3/4" only gun but that would not be a deterrent for me. Even when I've carried a shotgun for bear protection, I've had it loaded with nasty 2-3/4" slugs anyway...in a gun fully capable of running 3" ers. Again, I've never shot a bear for any reason but I have shot lots of slugs/00 Buck through 12ga pumps. If the OP hasn't seen what 2-3/4" slugs can do, perhaps some range time with big, heavy, reactive targets is in order. lol Likely won't leave you feeling like you need 3" slugs. As an aside, being near bears can be unnerving (especially when there are cubs) but having one walk past while you're pinching one off isn't justification to shoot of course. I feel a greater sense of security while at our family cottage when I have my Mossberg 500 with me...and we've had bears walk onto the property more than once. (near Haliburton) The gun has never left the case. Again, I'm not commenting on the desire to have one with you, but it's probably wise to decide in advance, as best as you can, what might warrant shooting one. In allot of places where they're common, you may find yourself having to explain why you pulled the trigger if they're not in season, and you have no tag.
Had a look in the EE, and while this one has been sold...I've shot this exact model. Nice sights, compact size, etc. https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1866887-Remington-870-Express-Deer-400-00-9-shots-through-it-Beautiful-Gun!?highlight=870+slug
- Location
- Somewhere on the Hudson Bay Coast
Once you purchase your gun, have decided on a load for it, and have loaded and shot it enough to ensure competence on your part, and reliability on the gun's part, take the gun and ammo combination you intend to protect yourself with, and go bear hunting. It doesn't matter whether or not you're a hunter, or whether or not you like hunting, but it is important for you to know what to expect should you have to shoot in a defensive situation. You might decide your gun and ammo combination is the greatest thing since sliced bread or you might find it wanting. You might discover that you're not as competent as you thought you were. You might discover that your ammo doesn't produce the lightning fast kill you expected. You might even find that you may prefer to explore other options for protecting you and yours.
Your advice hasn't fallen on deaf ears. no worries.
3" or 3.5", either way for me, I don't really have a choice one way or another. My 2200 is 3", all my existing 12G ammunition is 3", so I don't need to buy 2.75", Im looking for a 3" gun. Yes I know 2.75 is common, and have shot 2.75" slugs, 3" slugs etc.
Damn straight bears are unnerving. Try being IN the camp sleeping when one comes pounding on the door. My family comes first, If I don't HAVE to shoot a bear I won't, but I won't hesitate to if need-be. This Papa-Bear will fiercely protect my family regardless of being in season or not. We're 6km in the bush, boat access only. Remote!
We've been broken into by bears twice. Once when nobody was at the camp. Once I was there with my son (7yo). The time when my son was with me the bear ate a hole in the outside wall and got in the porch, clawing at the door to the main living are of the cottage. I was sitting right across from the door with a .30/30 just waiting for him to bust it open. Thankfully me yelling at him banging a pot turned him away. We were lucky.
When we were away:
Outside wall:
3" or 3.5", either way for me, I don't really have a choice one way or another. My 2200 is 3", all my existing 12G ammunition is 3", so I don't need to buy 2.75", Im looking for a 3" gun. Yes I know 2.75 is common, and have shot 2.75" slugs, 3" slugs etc.
Damn straight bears are unnerving. Try being IN the camp sleeping when one comes pounding on the door. My family comes first, If I don't HAVE to shoot a bear I won't, but I won't hesitate to if need-be. This Papa-Bear will fiercely protect my family regardless of being in season or not. We're 6km in the bush, boat access only. Remote!
We've been broken into by bears twice. Once when nobody was at the camp. Once I was there with my son (7yo). The time when my son was with me the bear ate a hole in the outside wall and got in the porch, clawing at the door to the main living are of the cottage. I was sitting right across from the door with a .30/30 just waiting for him to bust it open. Thankfully me yelling at him banging a pot turned him away. We were lucky.
When we were away:
Outside wall:
