Pseudo Scout Rifle

[duke1]

The Steyr scout rifle has always apealed to me but the price of $2k plus has prevented me from buying one.

With this is mind, I decided to try put one together that looks a bit like the Steyr one from what I had on hand and some parts readily available. The cost was kept down to a minimum by installing an inexpensive Chinese scout scope on it, etc.

The following is a bit of a background on the scout rifle:

"By the definition of the Scout Rifle Conferences held under the auspices of Jeff Cooper, the scout rifle has been defined as a general purpose rifle suitable for taking targets of up to 400 kg (880 pounds) at ranges to the limit of the shooters visibility (nominally 300 meters) that meets the following criteria:
Weight-sighted and slung: 3 kilograms (6.6 lb). This has been set as the ideal weight but the maximum has been stated as being 3.5 kg (7.7 pounds).
Length: 1 meter (39 inches)
Barrel length: .48 meter (19 inches)
Sighting system: Forward and low mounted (ahead of the action opening) long eye relief telescope of between 2x and 3x. Reserve iron sights desirable but not necessary.
Action: Magazine fed bolt action. Detachable box magazine and/or stripper clip charging is desirable but not necessary.
Sling: Fast loop-up type, i.e. Ching or CW style.
Caliber: Nominally .308 Winchester (7.62 x 51 mm) or 7 mm - 08 Winchester (7 x 51 mm), with .243 Winchester (6 x 51 mm) being considered for frail individuals or where "military" calibers are proscribed.
Built-in bipod: Desirable but not mandatory.
Accuracy: Should be capable of shooting into 2 minutes of angle or less at 200 yards/meters (3 shot groups).

Rifles that do not meet all of these specifications are technically not "scout rifles." Thus rifles of this general design in calibers other than those stated above are not true scout rifles but actually "pseudo-scouts." However, even though Steyr Mannlicher (and now Savage) are making production rifles of this general type (as well as some wild variations) they are under no legal obligation not to call their deviations "scouts" as a marketing tool. Thus the Steyr .376 Scout also known as (and probably better referred to as the ".376 Dragoon" although Jeff dislikes the term) nor the forthcoming .223 variation are true scout rifles. For that matter neither are the custom made scout-like rifles made up in .30-06, .375 H&H, or what ever caliber. However, there are many parts of the scout design that can be handily used on non-scout rifles."

My custom pseudo scout rifle has the following characteristics:

1. Weight - 8 lbs 12 oz (does not meet the criteria)

2. Length - 39 in. or 1 m (meets the criteria)

3. Sighting system - low mounted scope (2.5X) forward of the action (meets the criteria)

4. Action - bolt action with magazine (meets the criteria??)

5. Sling - none at the moment (does not meet the criteria)

6. Caliber - 308 W (meets the criteria)

7. Built-in-bipod - attached bipod (does not exactily meet criteria but bipod is not mandatory)

8. Accuracy - 2 MOA at 100 yds (to be determined - from past performance before barrel cut, should be possible)

As you can see, the biggest deviation is of course the weight and for this reason might not be something that I will keep for long. Weight of these scout rifles is usually kept down by fluting the barrel and using either aluminum or alloy short receivers. Because of its weight, the Mauser K98 receiver with a regular barrel is just not suitable for this kind of application

Approx cost of components:

1. German Mauser K98 - less than $100 around 1981
2. Commercial barrel - around $50 again in 1981 or so
3. Blueing and gunsmith work - around $130 or so around 1981
4. Cutting barrel, lathe work, recrown, etc. - around $100 just recently
5. Stock - $149 within last year
6. Scope and rings - less than $75.this year
7. Commercial bolt shroud - $70 just recently
8. Commercial trigger - $50 around 1981

Total cost = around $725

Duke1:

 

[Why not?]

Not bad at all.

Where id you get the stock?

Ted

 

[duke1]

Not bad at all.

Where id you get the stock?

Ted

Hi Ted (was starting to worry as I had not seen your handle on GN for a while)

The stock is available from Marstar and is an ATI model ATI-MSS1500 listed at 149.00. A camo version is also available priced at $189.00.

The action is off a K98 Mauser with a commercial barrel cut down to 19 inches. It also has a commercial trigger with a built-in safety.

Duke1

 

[Pepperpopper]

" Weight of these scout rifles is usually kept down by fluting the barrel and using either aluminum or alloy short receivers"

I don't think that is accurate, it may be the case with the Steyr (?), but all the earlier Cooper versions were straight away bolt actions. The original idea was that the 6.6 would be the weight with the scope, that soon fell by the wayside. If you tossed the bipod and rail system you would probably be there. Cooper was far more a sling guy than a bipod guy, thank goodness.

The critical thing is that the gun shoot really well, the test of breaking clay targets gives the right idea even if one never has a range that would allow it.

The main Issue I would have with the pictured rifle is that the scope is so high off the top of the rifle it will not acquire properly. The thing I looked for most, and which is hardest to find in the various versions from the factories, is a low enough objective. It should be virtually the same height as the the receiver itself. Then the stock needs to fit the scope height.

Cooper long said that a basic rifle with a properly forward mounted scope was not a scout rifle. Eventually he added so many features that he undermined the design and eventually there was only one gun that fit the bill the Steyr, which by all accounts is nonetheless good.

Cooper did have an affinity for a variety of rifles including Marlin and Savage levers. In many ways these are closer to the ideal than a lot of guns that don't make weight or shoot handily.

 

[duke1]

The main Issue I would have with the pictured rifle is that the scope is so high off the top of the rifle it will not acquire properly. The thing I looked for most, and which is hardest to find in the various versions from the factories, is a low enough objective. It should be virtually the same height as the the receiver itself. Then the stock needs to fit the scope height.

Cooper .

Thanks for the very appropriate comments.

I do agree with your comment of the scope being mounted high which might affect the ability to acquie properly. I find that this is not the case for me but it requires that I keep my head completely vertical with the bottom of my cheek touching the stock which makes for better target viewing using both eyes.

I don't know if you have used a forward mounted scope but my limited experience is that it is somewhat different than using other types of sighting apparatus. I'm somewhat impressed by what you see using both eyes (horizontally aligned) resulting in a very wide field of view.

As far as lever actions as scout rifles - I never use them for hunting although I have a number of them in my collection.

And for the bipod - I never use them for hunting and the one in the picture here was strictly for show.

I intend to make a couple of changes to the package - this is an experimental project and will probably never be used for hunting.

Thanks again,

Duke1

 

[Sharkson]

Thanks for the very appropriate comments.

I do agree with your comment of the scope being mounted high which might affect the ability to acquie properly. I find that this is not the case for me but it requires that I keep my head completely vertical with the bottom of my cheek touching the stock which makes for better target viewing using both eyes.

I don't know if you have used a forward mounted scope but my limited experience is that it is somewhat different than using other types of sighting apparatus. I'm somewhat impressed by what you see using both eyes (horizontally aligned) resulting in a very wide field of view.

As far as lever actions as scout rifles - I never use them for hunting although I have a number of them in my collection.

And for the bipod - I never use them for hunting and the one in the picture here was strictly for show.

I intend to make a couple of changes to the package - this is an experimental project and will probably never be used for hunting.

Thanks again,

Duke1

I put the same stock (camo version) on an old Mauser K98 last year. The stock is obviously a copy of the Steyr Scout stock, though the molded in "bipod" is NOT. I bought the stock because it looked "cool" and had the integral scope mounts.

It was a relatively inexpensive thing to do and an early attempt by myself to do a bit of bubba work.

I find though that the stock is unnecessarily heavy and slippery. I much prefer my other traditionally scoped and stocked Mauser (walnut stock) as it is lighter and easier to shoot.

I am now looking to get a Boyd's wood stock for the ATI stocked Mauser. I will have the barrel cut down and would like to convert it into a Scout rifle. Does anyone know of an aftermarket Scout mount (i.e. forward of the receiver) that would fit a Mauser?

 

[duke1]

Does anyone know of an aftermarket Scout mount (i.e. forward of the receiver) that would fit a Mauser?

Such scope mounts that attach to the rear sight assembly of the Mauser 98 are available from different suppliers including:

http://www.gunaccessories.com/MilitaryScopeMounts/Mauser/index.asp

I have seen other ones costing much less and that might be more appropriate - longer base.

Good luck!

Frank

 

[ZuluMike]

Does anyone know of an aftermarket Scout mount (i.e. forward of the receiver) that would fit a Mauser?

A Weaver mount for a TC Contender works really well as a scout mount on Mausers with the original stepped military barrel. You will have to remove the entire rear sight assembly and have the barrel drilled and tapped for the mount. I did this with my M96 'Swede' when I turned it into a psuedo scout a few years ago.

 

[Boomer]

You have built a very interesting rifle, at a very appealing cost. A Ching Sling or a Safari Ching Sling from Galco would finish it up quite nicely. I am confident that a light contour barrel would bring your weight down to the 3 kilo limit - although I have always considered that limit to be completely arbitrary. A strong man can carry a heavy rifle with the same ease that an average man can carry a light one. Balance is far more critical than weight, and is a greater challenge to get right.

It is unclear to me what magazine system your rifle uses, detachable box, hinged floor plate, original military Mauser plate or a blind magazine. The Styer version provides fast reloads by way of a duel magazine system. In my opinion this is a disadvantage because anything not permanently fixed to the rifle can be lost, where a hinged floor plate has nothing that can be lost, and can be used to quickly clear jams. The problem that I see with your rifle, if it is not the DBM style, is that the hand-guard/bolt-shroud prevents the use of stripper clips that would facilitate fast reloads.

 

[Northman999]

This is beautifully done. It's nice to see a rifle heavily modified like this that doesn't end up costing an arm and a leg.

 

[Why not?]

One thing I would have left as is, was the bolt shroud and safety. any paticular reason for the change other than cosmetics?

The trigger could have remained two stage and been fine for me as well. Just a bit of careful tuning to make sure the second stage broke clean.

I would have put the money saved from these two items into glass.

BTW, how rigid is the scope setup? I am curious, because it looks as if the handguard is just sitting there with two screws at the receiver and some other mechanical lock to keep the two pieces of the stock together.

Ted

 

[SuperCub]

One thing I would have left as is, was the bolt shroud and safety. any paticular reason for the change other than cosmetics?

Hard to beat the original M98 safety, esp if you don't need the clearance for a scope. Alot safer to block the firing pin than the trigger.


.

 

[duke1]

It is unclear to me what magazine system your rifle uses, detachable box, hinged floor plate, original military Mauser plate or a blind magazine. The Styer version provides fast reloads by way of a duel magazine system. In my opinion this is a disadvantage because anything not permanently fixed to the rifle can be lost, where a hinged floor plate has nothing that can be lost, and can be used to quickly clear jams. The problem that I see with your rifle, if it is not the DBM style, is that the hand-guard/bolt-shroud prevents the use of stripper clips that would facilitate fast reloads.

Thanks for the very interesting comments.

I do intend to modify the bolt area of the stock so that I can use stripper clips. I'm also looking at getting the lowest rings available and suitable for this scope. Will post pictures as soon as this work is done.

Of course I will be mounting the scope ahead of what you see in the pictures so that the stripper clip can be used.

Also the question from Ted on how rigidly the top piece of the stock is secured to the bottom piece and to the receiver. From what I can see, the design took this into consideration by including a metal ring that is solidly attached on the barrel just in from of the receiver with the top piece secured rigidly to this ring with four screws.

As far as the original Mauser safety, I find these types awkward to handle in hunting situations not to mention the noise they make. I'm also uncomfortable with two stage triggers. Also, I wanted to streamline the back of the gun as much as possible. The question - is it worth $70?

And the question of better optics - this will come later, depending on performance, etc. I just did not want to pay top dollars for an IER scope and then find out that this project was not worth it.

Duke1

 

[Why not?]

Very intersting project, Duke. I am really interested to see how it shoots.

C'mon, Man, get to the range!
Ted