Heckler & Koch fights for survival

JFF said:
The 416 is a great platform, but holy hell it is expensive for the average joe to justify.
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The mr223a3 is actually in line with a dd or colt canada if you add the features to one that the hk comes with stock.

Don't believe me?

Mr223a3
$3299

Your dds and cc around 2100-2300.
2 stage trigger. Geisseles show up on the ee for 250 new retail can be around 300.
Ambi safety. Standard on cc. Extra 80-140 on dd.
Ambi sling plate. Standard on cc. 25-50 bucks on dd.
Iron sights. 200-400 depending on brand.
Ambi mag release. $120-200.
Extended latch charging handle. 80-200 depending on brand or.
Ambi bolt catch... whatever custom machine work costs.
Winter trigger guard. $10-20 bucks.


Add all the featureset of the guns the hk comes with as standard you'll discover it's actually less money than a comparably accessorized colt canada or daniel defense or high end bcm rifle.

And its significantly cheaper than kac or lmt mars pattern guns.

On the mil side of the house the barrel life on the hk are second to none the bolt life on average is better. Especially under a heavy mix of automatic suppressor usage. That usually leads to a better life cycle value.

Don't get me wrong. A budget gun these are not. And cheap they are not. But understand while yes it's pricey. It's actually quite in line with other high end ar pattern carbines and no more "overpriced" than the other good makes such as cc or dd or bcm.
 
r34skyline said:
The mr223a3 is actually in line with a dd or colt canada if you add the features to one that the hk comes with stock.

Don't believe me?

Mr223a3
$3299

Your dds and cc around 2100-2300.
2 stage trigger. Geisseles show up on the ee for 250 new retail can be around 300.
Ambi safety. Standard on cc. Extra 80-140 on dd.
Ambi sling plate. Standard on cc. 25-50 bucks on dd.
Iron sights. 200-400 depending on brand.
Ambi mag release. $120-200.
Extended latch charging handle. 80-200 depending on brand or.
Ambi bolt catch... whatever custom machine work costs.
Winter trigger guard. $10-20 bucks.


Add all the featureset of the guns the hk comes with as standard you'll discover it's actually less money than a comparably accessorized colt canada or daniel defense or high end bcm rifle.

And its significantly cheaper than kac or lmt mars pattern guns.

On the mil side of the house the barrel life on the hk are second to none the bolt life on average is better. Especially under a heavy mix of automatic suppressor usage. That usually leads to a better life cycle value.

Don't get me wrong. A budget gun these are not. And cheap they are not. But understand while yes it's pricey. It's actually quite in line with other high end ar pattern carbines and no more "overpriced" than the other good makes such as cc or dd or bcm.
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You do bring up a very fair point, but like you said a budget gun these are not. I will never argue with the quality that HK puts out, but on the civvy side I assume their sales suffer as they do not appeal as much to the average joe, or even the guy that will spend $2300 on a DD or CC and then slowly build and add on as funds become available.
 
JFF said:
You do bring up a very fair point, but like you said a budget gun these are not. I will never argue with the quality that HK puts out, but on the civvy side I assume their sales suffer as they do not appeal as much to the average joe, or even the guy that will spend $2300 on a DD or CC and then slowly build and add on as funds become available.
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Thats their call. You're not wrong. At this point we're in the wal mart generation. We all mope about the quality of everything going down. But we speak a different language when we speak with our wallets.

But despite all this. I suspect this is more sensationalist journalism more than anything. They aren't going anywhere.
 
masterduckmaster said:
Awww cry me a river. That’s what you get for hating on / ignoring the civilian market.
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More like respecting the spirit of very strict German weapon export laws...
Another great manufacturing company going down while the masses are cheering.

Everyone should handle and fire an H&K MP5 (and a G3) once in their life to see what is true built quality.

Alex
 
AlexF said:
More like respecting the spirit of very strict German weapon export laws...
Another great manufacturing company going down while the masses are cheering.

Everyone should handle and fire an H&K MP5 (and a G3) once in their life to see what is true built quality.

Alex
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Is that ever the truth. The mp5sd was an experience and then some. As was the mp7. Those two are probably the most consistantly easy small arms I've used to manage in burst or auto. Especially the mp7. The absurd ease of shooting tight 5-10 round bursts into head sized targets blows your mind.
 
r34skyline said:
The mr223a3 is actually in line with a dd or colt canada if you add the features to one that the hk comes with stock.

Don't believe me?

Mr223a3
$3299

Your dds and cc around 2100-2300.
2 stage trigger. Geisseles show up on the ee for 250 new retail can be around 300.
Ambi safety. Standard on cc. Extra 80-140 on dd.
Ambi sling plate. Standard on cc. 25-50 bucks on dd.
Iron sights. 200-400 depending on brand.
Ambi mag release. $120-200.
Extended latch charging handle. 80-200 depending on brand or.
Ambi bolt catch... whatever custom machine work costs.
Winter trigger guard. $10-20 bucks.


Add all the featureset of the guns the hk comes with as standard you'll discover it's actually less money than a comparably accessorized colt canada or daniel defense or high end bcm rifle.

And its significantly cheaper than kac or lmt mars pattern guns.

On the mil side of the house the barrel life on the hk are second to none the bolt life on average is better. Especially under a heavy mix of automatic suppressor usage. That usually leads to a better life cycle value.

Don't get me wrong. A budget gun these are not. And cheap they are not. But understand while yes it's pricey. It's actually quite in line with other high end ar pattern carbines and no more "overpriced" than the other good makes such as cc or dd or bcm.
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First off, much respecto senior .....
secondly, do you have a R34 Skyline? It is literally my dream car. I have fantasized about R33/R34 Skylines for years...... If I win the lotto max, how much can I have it for? I promise ill treat her nice! :yingyang:
 
H&K employees jointly voted to increase weekly work hours without paid overtime, as well as nixed a one-off payment of 400 Euros per head for the month of July, so as to provide their beleaguered company some form of relief.
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They must be a great company to work for... no need for union interference.
 
[QU
OTE=BeaverMeat;16064667]They must be a great company to work for... no need for union interference.[/QUOTE]

Wow! What a silly comment! If HK was managed correctly in the first place they wouldn’t be in this predicament. “Union interference”... comical how inept management types always blame the worker
 
Junction said:
First off, much respecto senior .....
secondly, do you have a R34 Skyline? It is literally my dream car. I have fantasized about R33/R34 Skylines for years...... If I win the lotto max, how much can I have it for? I promise ill treat her nice! :yingyang:
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Unfortunately i do not. I bought too many Hk to be able to afford one. :p Maybe in the future.

BeaverMeat said:
They must be a great company to work for... no need for union interference.
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Take this with a grain of salt since I've only ever interacted with one employee but apparently it's an excellent company to work for.
 
I own both HK and Knights Armament. Build quality is equal in most respects. As a civi, I am not going to ever take any of my many AR’s to outer limits of their capability as to directly compare reliability with a voice of authority. Price and build, however are equal.
 
r34skyline said:
Thats their call. You're not wrong. At this point we're in the wal mart generation. We all mope about the quality of everything going down. But we speak a different language when we speak with our wallets.

But despite all this. I suspect this is more sensationalist journalism more than anything. They aren't going anywhere.
Click to expand...

We're also in the Honda generation. We've seen our parents buy ####ty Chrysler that cost an arm and a leg and broke down completely after 100,000km, while we drove our first civic to 300,000km after paying half the price for it. Sure, the ride is a bit bumpier, but some companies have proven again and again that you can have quality stuff for less and brand names often comes at a cost that doesn't add up to quality.

Some people need to wear tommy hilfigher, to drink starbuck and send sms on an iPhone. Some people will pay 1/3 the price for homebrewed coffee that's just as good and an android phone that works better than anything apple has ever built. HK seems like the Apple of guns to me.
 
VinnyQC said:
We're also in the Honda generation. We've seen our parents buy ####ty Chrysler that cost an arm and a leg and broke down completely after 100,000km, while we drove our first civic to 300,000km after paying half the price for it. Sure, the ride is a bit bumpier, but some companies have proven again and again that you can have quality stuff for less and brand names often comes at a cost that doesn't add up to quality.

Some people need to wear tommy hilfigher, to drink starbuck and send sms on an iPhone. Some people will pay 1/3 the price for homebrewed coffee that's just as good and an android phone that works better than anything apple has ever built. HK seems like the Apple of guns to me.
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"tommy hilfiger" "sms"...how old are you?! LOL

HK is far, far from the "apple of guns"...
 
Joejinx said:
Too busy selling to drug cartels... Right!!!!
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In 2006 and 2009 they were in the midst of selling 4,500 G36 rifles to Mexican officials. Apparently they were not supposed to sell these rifles to several of the northern states because so rife in local corruption chances were very high these would end up in the hands of the cartels.

The allegation against HK sales personnel, is that they contacted Mexican officials and coached them to modify the end user certificate to hide the state these were to be used within. Quite illegal.
 
HK- "Because you suck and we hate you"

Customers- *stop buying overpriced products*

HK- :
40f.png
 
rajczak_kashka said:
[QU
OTE=BeaverMeat;16064667]They must be a great company to work for... no need for union interference.
Click to expand...

Wow! What a silly comment! If HK was managed correctly in the first place they wouldn’t be in this predicament. “Union interference”... comical how inept management types always blame the worker[/QUOTE]

No. I’m just not one for (modern) unions. Not wanting to get into an argument... they have a place, unfortunately the concept has been lost as unions now operate as businesses with management. For example, a teacher’s union that owns real estate? Sounds like a business to me.
 
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