Heckler & Koch fights for survival

I gather you are referring to the Ontario Teachers pension fund? I suggest you research it before posting comments that both irritate others who applaud its amazing success and make you look foolish. All pension funds are invested as is our Canada Pension plan. I also don’t want to get into a debate with you about the merits of a union as I can certainly see we share no common ground here.
 
People have been begging HK to make a semi mp7 for civilians in 9x19mm, to which their social media response is always "cry me a river". They must not like money or just have zero sense.
 
People have been begging HK to make a semi mp7 for civilians in 9x19mm, to which their social media response is always "cry me a river". They must not like money or just have zero sense.

Because that is the dumbest thing to request to them. You want a 9mm wannabe mp7 you get a tp9 by b&t.

The mp7 was designed around the 4.6x30mm cartridge. Making an airsoft or 22lr replica is one thing. A 9mm version... while the ump 9mm and mp5 apready exists... yeah thats pretty phenomenally dumb.
 
Before we get more posts regarding "HK should make this semi-auto for me or that semi-auto", research German Gun Law and regulations. This is what often "handcuffs" HK from doing so. Very strict and they live with super radical left-wing members of their government who stick their noses....with political clout and power....into German defense / firearms / tech companies all the time. They live the nightmare everyday of what Canada can become if governed by a combination of Lieberal / Green / NDP collation governments.
So spare me the "HK should do this, or HK should make me and my buddies that" comments.

Rich
 
People have been begging HK to make a semi mp7 for civilians in 9x19mm, to which their social media response is always "cry me a river". They must not like money or just have zero sense.

Lmaooo!!!

...you'd have to rebuild and redesign the whole gun...and its size/weight would greatly increase.

Why stop at 9mm tho? Why not a .25-06 MP7 or a .30-40Krag...
 
Before we get more posts regarding "HK should make this semi-auto for me or that semi-auto", research German Gun Law and regulations. This is what often "handcuffs" HK from doing so. Very strict and they live with super radical left-wing members of their government who stick their noses....with political clout and power....into German defense / firearms / tech companies all the time. They live the nightmare everyday of what Canada can become if governed by a combination of Lieberal / Green / NDP collation governments.
So spare me the "HK should do this, or HK should make me and my buddies that" comments.

Rich

That's why FN USA, CZ USA and SIG USA are basically their own entities, while HK USA is just a sub of HK Germany.

There are ways to get around the laws in structuring the corporations.
 
I own both HK and Knights Armament. Build quality is equal in most respects. As a civi, I am not going to ever take any of my many AR’s to outer limits of their capability as to directly compare reliability with a voice of authority. Price and build, however are equal.

Thing is, BCM parts are going to last just as long as Knights or HK.

You don't have to spend a fortune to get good quality.
 
Thing is, BCM parts are going to last just as long as Knights or HK.

You don't have to spend a fortune to get good quality.

Very true, however, question was which AR’s were of similar quality to HK. My only true experience with something roughly on par with HK was KAC. I’ve owned LMT,Colt, DD and Armalite.... all fantastic rifles but IMHO the KAC rifles are on par. Again, question was also raised with regard as to why HK was so expensive. And, again, IMHO, if you want to compare apples to apples, HK and KAC rifles are also closely matched in price due to higher quality and materials among other attributes.
 
Looks like HK is here to stay!

https://www.hkpro.com/forum/showthread.php?p=3552984

Recently received from HK:

Dear Valued Partner,

I find it disappointing, but necessary, that I need to clear up the disinformation circulating in the media following our latest financial report. This narrative is the result of a chain reaction of doom and gloom started by a German news source that has been historically antagonistic toward HK. That one article triggered an initial US report on The Firearm Blog that lacked critical context. From there it just got worse, with each subsequent article sounding more bleak than the last. This culminated in a report from the Military Times that only served to remind us that, while HK is still very much alive, American journalism continues to die a slow and painful death.

Rather than argue about the conclusions of the authors, I would like to simply point out some facts:

Of the three US news stories, none contacted HK for comment for their reports.

The first two US articles (The Firearm Blog, The Outdoor Wire) used a foreign news story as their primary source without questioning their accuracy or motivation.

A third US article (Military Times) used the first two US articles s its primary sources, creating a sensationalized third- or fourth-hand account.

Of the three US articles, none referenced a single number from the HK financial report.

To be clear, HK still remains a leveraged company. This places a burden on the business that non-leveraged companies don’t have. However, we have met and continue to meet all covenants associated with this debt. The full story is easy to find in the financial data the news media neglected to report. Here are some key examples:

From 2014 to the end of 2018, HK’s debt was reduced from 290 million Euros to 235 million and the interest rate on that debt was reduced substantially.

Over the course of 2018 and thus far in 2019, HK reported positive EBITDA in every quarter.

Over that same period, HK’s cash position doubled.

Claims of “diminishing sales” and “difficulty securing new large-scale contracts” are patently false. In fact, the last six quarters for HK have shown record order-intake, including a substantial backlog of large-scale contracts.

HK invested a combined 8.3 million Euros toward increased capacity and efficiency in both the Obendorf, Germany and Columbus, GA facilities in 2018.

The full financial report and other key data can be found at https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/ir/annual-accounts.html and https://www.heckler-koch.com/en/ir/key-figures.html.

At HK, we are committed to supplying and servicing our US partners for many profitable years to come. I can assure you that we are in it for the long haul.

Sincerely,

Michael Holley

CSO/COO - Heckler & Koch - US
 
What the hell was he going to say??

Yes, we are in trouble? So, he can watch all potential contracts and customers look somewhere else?

The fact they even responded shows a level of desperation not seen before. Hk is notorious for going dark with almost all communication.
 
What the hell was he going to say??

Yes, we are in trouble? So, he can watch all potential contracts and customers look somewhere else?

The fact they even responded shows a level of desperation not seen before. Hk is notorious for going dark with almost all communication.

Guess they are damned if they do damned if they don't huh?

I do find Hk haters particularly amusing.

The official hk statement said everything that needed to be said. The debt is being reduced and the contracts are in for years and odds are the g36 replacement contract will be theirs and it's not even confirmed.

Thing is, BCM parts are going to last just as long as Knights or HK.

You don't have to spend a fortune to get good quality.


And you have what data point to conclude that statement?
 
Guess they are damned if they do damned if they don't huh?

I do find Hk haters particularly amusing.

The official hk statement said everything that needed to be said. The debt is being reduced and the contracts are in for years and odds are the g36 replacement contract will be theirs and it's not even confirmed.




And you have what data point to conclude that statement?

Just keep drinking the kool-aid.

I waited over a year for a warranty part for my last HK. Damn ridiculous. They won't EVER get another dime of my money.
 
When was the last time anyone held a brand new SFP9, P30, USP45 or USP9 in store in canada ??

Ya, but their doing fine. Nothing to see here.
 
When was the last time anyone held a brand new SFP9, P30, USP45 or USP9 in store in canada ??

Ya, but their doing fine. Nothing to see here.

Canadian civilian sales are a drop in the bucket for most companies. Store presence isn't a good indicator of anything here.
 
When was the last time anyone held a brand new SFP9, P30, USP45 or USP9 in store in canada ??

Ya, but their doing fine. Nothing to see here.

Bullseye in London, ON always stocks many new HKs.

They fully, correctly and openly explained it all, the "situation" and you see that as double proof they are in bad times? Hahaha get over yourself.

Servicing guns in general in Canada is hard...even for guns like Smith and Wesson with them just being across the boarder...a high end, European gun company is gonna be even harder...
 
Just keep drinking the kool-aid.

I waited over a year for a warranty part for my last HK. Damn ridiculous. They won't EVER get another dime of my money.

I have every plans on continuing to do so. I'm sure Hk is missing your whopping purchase power of one...

And when their factory is on 2 year backlog on current contracts with no word on when the german rifle contract will hit yeah... they're hurting alright Laugh2

And i know you love your dinosaur method of holding stuff but someday you will realize how online sales work... wait wait wait. You are moping about feeling things out on the vendor thread that solely has an online shop with no actual store for you to walk in and fondle the inventory? Laugh2
 
The amount of ignorance presented by these US articles is staggering.

Obviously they don't read the bloody financial statements ( or maybe these US writers do not know how to read financial statements? )

I scanned through their 2018 FR their interest expenses had gone down. Their overhead seems to be under control Their revenue increased but COS increased by the same amount - this is because of bottleneck in parts delivery and the product mix, and they had to pay more to get it done. In other words, they have more business than they can handle so they end up losing money on some of these sales to get things out of the door just to fulfill contracts.


Hence in the first QTR the CEO talked about improving manufacturing efficiency. And I suspect part of this efficiency solution is to reduce product mix, this means less choices for civilian products and bigger min. order or higher price if purchasers wants their own configurations.
 
As a consumer why would one by an H&K MR223 @ $3799 (DurhamOutdoors) over a Daniel Defense @ $2100-2600. These are both guns used by "tier 1 delta seal ninja rangers" so if both are good for them, I can't imagine one is overly better. Most of the channels of ex mil guys I watch seem to be running DD or BCM AR15/M4, and they have a choice to buy whatever they want with their money. So from the civilian side in Canada why pay the extra $1100 plus? Please don't say the quality lol. All three companies DD HK BCM make amazing rifles.
 
As a consumer why would one by an H&K MR223 @ $3799 (DurhamOutdoors) over a Daniel Defense @ $2100-2600. These are both guns used by "tier 1 delta seal ninja rangers" so if both are good for them, I can't imagine one is overly better. Most of the channels of ex mil guys I watch seem to be running DD or BCM AR15/M4, and they have a choice to buy whatever they want with their money. So from the civilian side in Canada why pay the extra $1100 plus? Please don't say the quality lol. All three companies DD HK BCM make amazing rifles.

Seems durham has upped their prices. I grabbed mine for 3299 from bullseyelondon.

If you get a dd or bcm or a colt canada and add the features the mr223a3 comes with stock such as the extended latch, ambi safety, ambi sling slot, ambi mag release, ambi bolt catch(not possible without a lmt mars or a kac lower) 2 stage trigger, iron sights. You will find it is on par if not more expensive than the Hk...

Some people like fettling and adding the stuff later. Some like the solution off the gate.

There are other things that might help it in gov use such as such as grenade launcher lug, or safety that can be engaged after dropping the hammer and a handguard that retains zero after disassembly and reassembly and its distinct advantage in suppressor usage especially in short barrel configurations. Keep in mind for joe blow canadian shooters these are useless advantages but if we are to argue the merits of the capabilities they are there.

I notice at 3799 it's still a better value than a knights...

Edit:
As for youtube gun dudes that were ex cool kids majority of them are usually sponsored by one of said companies... not that bcm or dd isn't awesome they absolutely are.

And this is one of the rare times we can have the cooler gear than the americans. Because out of the factory opyions their mr556/a1 are a non chrome lined 16 inch barrel gun... the end. They don't have a factory 11 inch or 14.5 option. We do.
 
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