Browning Superposed Lightening questions

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sailor723

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I bought this on an impulse a couple of years ago. I've never actually shot it but I recently bought a Trius foot peddle thrower so i thought I'd dig it out.

It's a 1968 from the serial number. 12g 30" barrels with what I assume is a broadway rib (measures 5/8" wide with 2 ivory beads)
Left side of breech is marked * over * which I understand to be both barrels full choke. It appears to have been bored out at some point as it's also stamped "IC" and "S" over top of the *'s and my choke gauge seems to confirm that.

I know '68 is right in the salty era but there is no sign of any corrosion. I've pulled a butt screw and also had the forestock off and zero sign of any rust.
I noticed the fore stock is numbered to the gun but has a rather large (1/2"+high) "N" stamped close to the serial number. Would that make sense if this gun has been back to Browning to have the wood replaced?
I also note the fore stock appears lighter in colour than the butt. Did they ever find one section of wood salty but the other OK and only replace one?
The forestock also appears wider than normal and seems to flare out as it goes forward?

I be interested in any info the experts here can offer. I actually bought the gun for sentimental reasons as it's similar to a gun my late uncle used to loan me for duck hunting back when I was in HS in the '70's. His was more heavily engraved and was in a hard case with a set of 20g barrels but other than that was the same.

Anyway any insight/opinions on this gun or ideas of value would be appreciated
 
It might have started life as a trap gun with a high comb butt stock. Perhaps the buttstock was swapped out for a regular stock, and the chokes opened at the same time. Given that its now a bit of a mixmaster skeet gun, I'd value it at 900$, assuming the top lever is still right-side...
 
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I've had several Broadways over the years. I'm not sure what the letter "N" stands for but I pulled the stock off of my 1962 Broadway and it has the letter "B" stamped about 2 inches to the right of the serial number in the fore stock. Don't know what that stands for either...
Val Browning said that 90% of guns made between 1967 and 1969 had salt wood but if you see no signs of corrosion anywhere then it isn't going to start appearing now after all these years. The definitive test for salt wood utilizes silver nitrate which turns white if it contacts salt however, most collectors agree that they have never seen salt wood on a long tang Super and I'm willing to bet that your gun is a long tang model, at least I've never seen a short tang in these models. Browning used to replace salt wood free of charge to original owners but I doubt if they are doing that anymore and I doubt that there are many original owner Supers out there with salt wood that hasn't been changed.
Your fore stock looks normal to me, it's a beavertail fore end which most guns of your year came with but they also came with what I'd call a normal fore end which I prefer. As for the color difference, maybe it's been replaced and maybe it came that way, hard to say. If it was replaced then probably done at Browning if it has the serial number stamped into it. I've never heard if they re-stamped the number when they replaced salt wood or not but it seems plausible.

Personally I like the older style guns. Yours has newer and different ejector set up than the older ones and the ejector extensions tend to crack and break. If you don't notice the cracks then one day you'll open the gun after firing and the ejector will fly out over your shoulder and get lost in the grass behind you. The ejector extension isn't too expensive but the ejectors are a couple hundred US and have to be fitted. A lot of the guns I see at gun shows have cracked ejector extensions and the owner doesn't even know it. I'd be very hesitant to purchase a gun over the internet without being able to look at it before buying.... yes I got burned once.....
In your picture of the open action, you can see a round hole in the ejector extension, look to the right of that hole about maybe 1/8th of and inch over and see if there is a tiny crack running down from the top, look at it real close cause the cracks will be small. Have a look at the one on the other side too. If no cracks then your good to go, if you see one starting then get it replaced before it gets more expensive when the ejector gets lost in the grass! I would do them both if one is cracked.

If your top lever is right of center then that's a big plus. Many Broadways have been shot lots and the locking tongue is worn out. You can tell this instantly if you detect a slight vibration when you close the action and the lever goes to center. Most often, the levers on Supers don't go left of center and are bottomed out by the time they get to center. Not an expensive fix but the tongue does have to be fitted.
I think it's a shame that your gun was opened up to ic and skeet. To start with a 30 inch gun isn't (IMO) ideal for skeet and the chokes aren't ideal for hunting. Also, the Broadway rib isn't ideal for anything other than trap as many shooters complain of the wide rib hiding too much target. I can't recall seeing a Broadway in anything but full and full or full and improved mod, old trap shooters like tight patterns!

Superposed guns are far from perfect but they are nice guns and mostly well built. The faults and weak areas are well documented and parts are still available for them.
 
If the Salt Wood starts right after this one I suggest you have a very nice gun.
Check out this guys videos and see what he comments about "Salt Wood" and "Superposed".http://https://artsgunshop.com/
Looks like the lever is still just to the right of center, but not clear enough..doesnt matter yet till you shoot it lots and report how it works for you and dusting clyas.

Rob
 
It started out life as a Broadway but it got screwed with the stock and chokes I wouldn't pay any big money for it. Browning didn't replace a lot of salt stocks I have a 20 gauge super skeet that they dicked me on 73 production run their repair was a messed up piece of crap I ended up repairing on my own .
 
I just took another look at your pics and noticed something else that I didn't before. It's always been my understanding that Broadways came with a curved trap recoil pad and your doesn't have it, instead it looks like a plastic butt plate more common on field guns. I could be wrong about them all having it though, stranger things have happened, but I'm inclined to think that your rear stock has been changed out and that would account for the difference in color from the front wood. There could be more than one reason for that, to start with it could have been a salt stock but it could also have gotten broken previously and replaced with a non- Broadway stock, either way it's of little consequence. There also appears to be some darkening of the wood on the right side where it meets the receiver, oil soaking maybe?
 
Falconflyer said:
I just took another look at your pics and noticed something else that I didn't before. It's always been my understanding that Broadways came with a curved trap recoil pad and your doesn't have it, instead it looks like a plastic butt plate more common on field guns. I could be wrong about them all having it though, stranger things have happened, but I'm inclined to think that your rear stock has been changed out and that would account for the difference in color from the front wood. There could be more than one reason for that, to start with it could have been a salt stock but it could also have gotten broken previously and replaced with a non- Broadway stock, either way it's of little consequence. There also appears to be some darkening of the wood on the right side where it meets the receiver, oil soaking maybe?
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I am guessing that darkening at the stock is glass bedding that is what Browning did on my one year old 20 gauge salt gun on a warranty years back it still pisses me off. Broadways seem to be going for around $1800 so with those mods $900 would be on the high side. It is a shooter nothing else.
 
Thanks all for the info. I checked the ejector extensions and they appear OK. I'll try and find a magnifying glass and have a closer look to confirm.

I did remeasure the chokes and while they are certainly not full and full as originally marked, they do not appear to have been opened up as much as indicated by the marks of IC and S

I have two choke gauges i bought online. One marked "Galazan" that has US markings. The other has no makers marks and is English (marked Bore, IMP, 1/4, 1/2, 3/4 and Full.
This gun measures IM over M with the US gauge and 1/2 over 1/4 with the English one so the gauges don't quite agree. (I believe 1/2 over 1/4 would convert to M over IC....very confusing!) maybe whoever did the rebore messed it up or both of my cheap, sourced online gauges are inaccurate?
 
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At first glance I would guess the gun has a target/trap style forend and a field style butt stock. That and the color difference of the wood strongly suggests to me that the butt is a replacement, as others have noted.
 
Choke or constriction is a relative thing and cannot be measured without knowing the bore diameter, or it can be done at the patterning board with a lot of counting little holes and some simple math... that would be arithmetic for you scholars. So those choke measuring tools that you can buy are pretty much useless unless they are calibrated for the bore diameter of the particular gun you happen to be measuring and that only happens by luck!
Belgian Superposed barrels were made in a time when bores were tight and 12 gauge barrels were normally around .723 and seldom over .725 inches id, unless of course they have been back bored or over bored as I prefer to say. With that in mind, the choke constrictions can be measured quite easily and reasonably close with just a set of calipers. You should take measurements 90 degree's from each other in case the muzzle is out of round. Full choke should be .035 inches tighter than the bore so if the bore is .723 then the full choke should be around .688 inches. The muzzles on my current (and favorite) Broadway are marked 18.4 (mm) and the barrels have never been over bored. That ID in mm's equates to .724 inches and the chokes measure .685 on the bottom and .687 on the top (marked full and full). In other words, the top barrel is bang on constriction and the bottom barrel is a bit loose to the degree that it doesn't matter (.002 inches) assuming of course that the bore diameter is consistent and accurately measured. At the end of the day, it really matters little if targets break when you do your part.... but if your gun has been over bored then all bets are off with the constriction!

It might seem as though we (I) am picking your gun apart but far from it, you seem to have a very functional gun. It matters little if the stock was replaced, so it's not a collector's item then that doesn't matter to someone who likes to shoot and not collect. Your gun appears to be mechanically sound so take it out shoot it and enjoy!
 
warzaw said:
I am guessing that darkening at the stock is glass bedding that is what Browning did on my one year old 20 gauge salt gun on a warranty years back it still pisses me off. Broadways seem to be going for around $1800 so with those mods $900 would be on the high side. It is a shooter nothing else.
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I have normally paid $1,100 to $1,400 for the Broadways I've owned. The only one I've paid over $1,800 for had Briley thin wall chokes (7 of them), over bored barrels, an adjustable comb, a Graco recoil pad and a nice take down case. I did see one that had very few rounds through it at a gun show last spring and the seller was asking $2,500 for it, it was really nice but I think he took it home at the end of the show.
 
Falconflyer said:
Choke or constriction is a relative thing and cannot be measured without knowing the bore diameter, or it can be done at the patterning board with a lot of counting little holes and some simple math... that would be arithmetic for you scholars. So those choke measuring tools that you can buy are pretty much useless unless they are calibrated for the bore diameter of the particular gun you happen to be measuring and that only happens by luck!
Belgian Superposed barrels were made in a time when bores were tight and 12 gauge barrels were normally around .723 and seldom over .725 inches id, unless of course they have been back bored or over bored as I prefer to say. With that in mind, the choke constrictions can be measured quite easily and reasonably close with just a set of calipers. You should take measurements 90 degree's from each other in case the muzzle is out of round. Full choke should be .035 inches tighter than the bore so if the bore is .723 then the full choke should be around .688 inches. The muzzles on my current (and favorite) Broadway are marked 18.4 (mm) and the barrels have never been over bored. That ID in mm's equates to .724 inches and the chokes measure .685 on the bottom and .687 on the top (marked full and full). In other words, the top barrel is bang on constriction and the bottom barrel is a bit loose to the degree that it doesn't matter (.002 inches) assuming of course that the bore diameter is consistent and accurately measured. At the end of the day, it really matters little if targets break when you do your part.... but if your gun has been over bored then all bets are off with the constriction!

It might seem as though we (I) am picking your gun apart but far from it, you seem to have a very functional gun. It matters little if the stock was replaced, so it's not a collector's item then that doesn't matter to someone who likes to shoot and not collect. Your gun appears to be mechanically sound so take it out shoot it and enjoy!
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Interesting....thanks for that explanation. Now I'm curious so I think I'll dig up a set of calipers and see what the chokes actually are.
 
sailor723 said:
Guessing?....sorry but I don't follow you. If you take measurements to 1/1000's of an inch with a set of digital calipers how is that guessing? :confused:
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Measuring the chokes will give you a number only . Until you actually pattern the gun with a shell of your choseing it is all a guess .
 
Different loads will often pattern different with the same constriction. One factor is velocity, a higher velocity load tends to open up faster than a slow velocity load or one brand of ammo may use a wad that opens faster or slower than another brand. Because of this, measuring gives you points of constriction or choke but it may not correspond exactly with what you see on the pattern board or it might be right on with one brand of ammo but not another so the only true way to ascertain choke is to go out and pattern.
Measuring points of constriction only gives an approximation or a theoretical choke. This is good enough for most types of shooting since few people can estimate the distance to a target in the air accurately anyway and those distances are often changing. Keeping that in mind, it's better to be over choked than under.
 
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