Just from experience on the gimped LEH is all.
Shrewms huh?
Dunnoh.
The LEH is a gimped system proven time and time again.
But carpetcleaner yer mileage may vary.
BC LEH draw has been done and the results are out.
- Thread starter Pointdexter
- Start date
Just from experience on the gimped LEH is all.
Shrewms huh?
Dunnoh.
The LEH is a gimped system proven time and time again.
But carpetcleaner yer mileage may vary.
Looking back over the years I've gotten a few draws ….. never got drawn for grizz, bison or sheep....but got mulie 2 doe draws , 4 moose draws and 2 elk draws. Not sure exactly how many years I been hunting now..... 23..... 25? ….. this is the first year since LEH started that I have not put in.
Not bitter about the process so much but it could be improved with a non lottery system that would put hunters into rotation for certain species. Choice of area should be taken out of the equation for moose and those that put their names in for these animals should be prepared to hunt wherever their tag designates. This would allow game management to better direct hunter efforts in areas of abundance.
Another thing that really bugs me about the BC system is the seasons for cow and cow/calf. I have read the articles that support these hunts but I don't personally agree with them. The surplus of cows and calves should be available for predators , not hunting tags. Meanwhile predation has become rampant in our province, threatening ungulate numbers and yet in some of those very same regions...… LEH and GOS cow, cow/calf seasons.
all that said, I have some good hunting grounds to fill my tags without needing the LEH system and others may not be so fortunate and rely on the system to get moose tags ect.
So if you got lucky this year, good for you, have fun out there.
Not bitter about the process so much but it could be improved with a non lottery system that would put hunters into rotation for certain species. Choice of area should be taken out of the equation for moose and those that put their names in for these animals should be prepared to hunt wherever their tag designates. This would allow game management to better direct hunter efforts in areas of abundance.
Another thing that really bugs me about the BC system is the seasons for cow and cow/calf. I have read the articles that support these hunts but I don't personally agree with them. The surplus of cows and calves should be available for predators , not hunting tags. Meanwhile predation has become rampant in our province, threatening ungulate numbers and yet in some of those very same regions...… LEH and GOS cow, cow/calf seasons.
all that said, I have some good hunting grounds to fill my tags without needing the LEH system and others may not be so fortunate and rely on the system to get moose tags ect.
So if you got lucky this year, good for you, have fun out there.
That is crazy. Yes, it definitely needs to be revamped.
Here in Alberta you start out at zero priority and every year you are not selected in a draw lottery your priority increases 1 point for that species. When you apply for draws they always select first from the highest priority individuals and work there way down to lower priority hunters until they run out of tags. It may take you years to get some draws here but eventually you will get selected assuming the tags given out stays consistent.
When I lived in BC years ago, it was a constant frustration putting in for easy odds year after year and getting nothing, while some of my horseshoe wielding buddies would come up with tags every single year lol. I quit complaining when I was 1st drawn on a new sheep area at 200:1. Now living in Alberta, I do have an appreciation for the priority system, as it is very predictable and more transparent.
That's an opinion, and in BC it is a minority opinion.
The AB priority system would not work in BC because we have a few draws with such terrible odds that it would take 200 years to get enough priority points to win.
In the end, the two systems (BC vs. AB) both have pros and cons. People saying the BC system doesn't work are those that have been unlucky.
Thing is, that same guy who is butthurt for not winning anything for 20 years has 2 choices. 1) Keep playing and possibly land on a roll of multi-year wins and celebrate/exploit the opportunity for some unique hunts before he dies, 2) Abstain from the LEH, guaranteeing he never wins, and ##### about it on the internet.
pete dobinson
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Courtenay BC.
30 years of putting in for elk and have never been drawn.
And you aren't joking..I know a guy whose son is a CO..
Just amazing the draws he gets..
Some here just can't believe the system is corrupted..Oh well.. no changing that
barry1974w
Regular
- Location
- Central B.C.
Last year some moose draws in BC had odds of over 120:1, there’s a whole bunch of other moose draws that had odds of 0:1, nobody applied for them..... I’m not sure how the Alberta system works, but if I understand it correctly, if you want your hunt to be in the area with 120:1 odds, it could take up to 120 years to draw a tag?? Correct me if I’m wrong please. But if you applied in areas with 0:1 or 1:1 odds you should get drawn every year or two.... there’s plenty of undersubscribed draws in BC, but if 15000 hunters apply in the unit closest to the city they live in, it’s going to take a while to work through everybody.....
That all being said, my wife normally applies for moose close to home, and I normally apply in more remote areas with better odds, but we get drawn about as often. It took close to twenty years for me to draw my first bison tag, then I pulled another two year later (good thing too, never saw a bison on the first trip.....).
That all being said, my wife normally applies for moose close to home, and I normally apply in more remote areas with better odds, but we get drawn about as often. It took close to twenty years for me to draw my first bison tag, then I pulled another two year later (good thing too, never saw a bison on the first trip.....).
Mathematically, this is the same thing as saying you put in for elk 1 year and didn't get drawn. Would that surprise you?
You could put in for elk for 100 years, and this year you'd have the same chances of winning as everyone else.
It is human nature to think it should "even out" over the years. Human nature in this case is wrong. The math doesn't give a sh!t how many times you applied, and it doesn't care about our feelings. I guess that's why I like the BC system so much. None of this "equity" (equal outcome) bullsh!t. I didn't realize there were so many Commies around here (not talking about you specifically, Pete).
Mathematically, this is the same thing as saying you put in for elk 1 year and didn't get drawn. Would that surprise you?
You could put in for elk for 100 years, and this year you'd have the same chances of winning as everyone else.
It is human nature to think it should "even out" over the years. Human nature in this case is wrong. The math doesn't give a sh!t how many times you applied, and it doesn't care about our feelings. I guess that's why I like the BC system so much. None of this "equity" (equal outcome) bullsh!t. I didn't realize there were so many Commies around here (not talking about you specifically, Pete).
eguating commies and a rigged , flawed, corrupt system is a stretch
Except I didn't say that.
I compared people crying for a points system that aims at equity (equal outcome) are like Commies, and it is true. That is a very Communist principle. Perhaps the most Communist principle.
Should we have a points system for the Lotto Max, too? I'm asking the Pinkos.
resorting to name calling to get your point across just makes you come off as a tool
nobody cares..... I don't see anyone in this thread crying the blues , ranting and foaming at the mouth that they didn't get drawn LOL
Just you and Gub making comments that attack others in your little internet quest to defend the LEH system …….. maybe grow up some.
Despite the dwindling resources and open seasons for some of our game in BC, there are still many areas to hunt in GOS, with decent seasons if you are prepared for those hunts.
Yes, for those guys seeking trophy sheep and other critters in LEH only regions, the system is there for those guys and that's cool.
Truthfully , the main reason I don't want to do LEH anymore?
I have a loose group f hunting friends and we make thse plans to go to the far off corners o the province with all our gear and truly rough it for a couple weeks far from the crowds, in true wilderness. Then someone gets a draw and the group divides and the epic hunts to the far off corners just never come together. I get especially frustrated by this as I've invested in all the gear necessary.... except for horses..... even built a custom stainless, bear proof , refrigerated meat hauler trailer for the august hunts. We never seem to use all that gear because someone pulls an LEH and it throws a wrench into the plans.
So I'm just not going to participate and convinced a few of my buds to follow along and save up for the epic hunts. We aren't getting any younger.
If you like the LEH.... great!! Good luck, hope you are successful in the draw and in the field.
But you can kiss my @ss if you want to start name calling and berating the guys who don't like the system and for whatever reason and have suggestions on how it can be improved or replaced.
nobody cares..... I don't see anyone in this thread crying the blues , ranting and foaming at the mouth that they didn't get drawn LOL
Just you and Gub making comments that attack others in your little internet quest to defend the LEH system …….. maybe grow up some.
Despite the dwindling resources and open seasons for some of our game in BC, there are still many areas to hunt in GOS, with decent seasons if you are prepared for those hunts.
Yes, for those guys seeking trophy sheep and other critters in LEH only regions, the system is there for those guys and that's cool.
Truthfully , the main reason I don't want to do LEH anymore?
I have a loose group f hunting friends and we make thse plans to go to the far off corners o the province with all our gear and truly rough it for a couple weeks far from the crowds, in true wilderness. Then someone gets a draw and the group divides and the epic hunts to the far off corners just never come together. I get especially frustrated by this as I've invested in all the gear necessary.... except for horses..... even built a custom stainless, bear proof , refrigerated meat hauler trailer for the august hunts. We never seem to use all that gear because someone pulls an LEH and it throws a wrench into the plans.
So I'm just not going to participate and convinced a few of my buds to follow along and save up for the epic hunts. We aren't getting any younger.
If you like the LEH.... great!! Good luck, hope you are successful in the draw and in the field.
But you can kiss my @ss if you want to start name calling and berating the guys who don't like the system and for whatever reason and have suggestions on how it can be improved or replaced.
My Commie/Pinko comments weren't directed at anyone specific (rather, to this "equity" idea) but you seem to have taken offense.
I mostly agree with your evaluation of the GOS, which is yet another reason why the LEH system (and its supposed flaws) simply doesn't matter that much. It's a bonus to an already excellent GOS. In other words, anyone can hunt successfully and feed their families (if that's their goal) within the GOS, if they are willing to put in the time/effort. Most species are available in a GOS somewhere in the province if you are willing to do the work.
In simplest terms, the BC LEH is a lottery - but it is even better than that because you get to choose your odds. If you go into it with the right understanding of the odds (and you fully realize that playing for 30 years doesn't make a lick of difference to each yearly draw) then what's not to like about it?
The constant "well I applied for 20 years and never won, but my buddy's wife got it three years in a row - it has to be rigged" stuff just boggles my mind. That's exactly what should be expected to happen in a truly random lottery. People say "but it's not fair". It is fair. Everyone has the exact same chances each year. The outcome of the system (over time) is viewed as "unfair". Perhaps it is. Why does that bother people? I may never win another LEH again. But I'll keep playing.
Mathematically, this is the same thing as saying you put in for elk 1 year and didn't get drawn. Would that surprise you?
You could put in for elk for 100 years, and this year you'd have the same chances of winning as everyone else.
It is human nature to think it should "even out" over the years. Human nature in this case is wrong. The math doesn't give a sh!t how many times you applied, and it doesn't care about our feelings. I guess that's why I like the BC system so much. None of this "equity" (equal outcome) bullsh!t. I didn't realize there were so many Commies around here (not talking about you specifically, Pete).
Mathematically, this is the same thing as saying you put in for elk 1 year and didn't get drawn. Would that surprise you?
You could put in for elk for 100 years, and this year you'd have the same chances of winning as everyone else.
It is human nature to think it should "even out" over the years. Human nature in this case is wrong. The math doesn't give a sh!t how many times you applied, and it doesn't care about our feelings. I guess that's why I like the BC system so much. None of this "equity" (equal outcome) bullsh!t. I didn't realize there were so many Commies around here (not talking about you specifically, Pete).
Actually, you are incorrect. If the draw is truly fair then your chance of being drawn in any given year is whatever the odds are. However, over time the probability of being drawn, or not drawn does change. Think of flipping a coin as a very basic example. Each time you flip a coin there is a 50% chance of it being heads. However, what is the probability of landing on heads two times in a row? How about five times in a row?
1/2 (50%) chance of heads.
1/2 x 1/2 = 1/4. So there is a 25% chance of landing on heads 2x in a row.
1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 x 1/2 = 1/32. There is a 3% chance of landing on heads 5 times in a row.
The larger the number of coin flips the closer you get to 50% heads.
Let's say there is a 10:1 odds moose hunt. Four people put in for a group hunt. The chance for EACH person to NOT be drawn is 90%. The probability that NONE of them will be drawn is 65.6%
Assume that the odds stay the same for the next 4 years. The probability that they will NOT get a draw for 4 years in a row is 18.5%
