9mm pistol accuracy

[tobin]

Just for fun, I benched 2 of my pistols today to see what they (and I) would do accuracy wise. I set a target at 15 yards at the indoor range and put 5 shots slow off the bench into each one.

Glock 22 with KKM 9mm conversion barrel:

2 1/4 inch (vertical string)

CZ 85 Combat with match sights and trigger job (single action only):

1 inch (nice round group , all touching)

The load is CamPro 124 gr. RN bullet over 3.8 gr. of Titegroup.

So it seems that of these two, my CZ 85 is more accurate than the Glock even with the KKM barrel. I could have put the targets out to 25 yards but the bullseye on them is only 2 1/2 inches wide and I can't see that far anymore!

 

[Canuck44]

Just for fun, I benched 2 of my pistols today to see what they (and I) would do accuracy wise. I set a target at 15 yards at the indoor range and put 5 shots slow off the bench into each one.

Glock 22 with KKM 9mm conversion barrel:

2 1/4 inch (vertical string)

CZ 85 Combat with match sights and trigger job (single action only):

1 inch (nice round group , all touching)

The load is CamPro 124 gr. RN bullet over 3.8 gr. of Titegroup.

So it seems that of these two, my CZ 85 is more accurate than the Glock even with the KKM barrel. I could have put the targets out to 25 yards but the bullseye on them is only 2 1/2 inches wide and I can't see that far anymore!

Did the same thing with my CZ 85 Combat against a G 17 with identical results a few years back. The lockup on the Glock does not provide the same degree of repetitiveness as does the Browning designed lock up of the CZ's. The result is the Glock is a fine combat pistol but not so much of a target gun.

Take Care

Bob

 

[tharkhold]

P210-1

2 shots to hit a 9mm brass casing sitting on the top of a 2x4 @ 10m

The very tight fit and finish is worth it, regardless of its 'precision'

 

[Travis Bickle]

Maybe the limitation is you the operator?? If 12" at 10m were the best I could do I'd get some assistance or practice more... I've had handguns that would shoot sub MOA at 200m (not service pistols granted) and lots of service grade handguns, both pistol and revolver, that would keep 5 inside of the 10 ring at 25m...

Nice to see a man who knows his limitationsFor the rest of us who can shoot, an accurate gun is the way to go

Yeah you're both right. I can barely rack the slide
Pistols are close range firearms. Defensive tools. Quick drawing and putting 8 rounds into a 12" circle in under 5 seconds IS pistol accuracy evidence a plenty.
I've owned and fired everything from a TT33 to a 92FS, 1911's in 9mm and 45 ACP to a Sig 226 and every major design in between and some oddballs over the many years.
I haven't owned a semi auto that couldn't accomplish this.
The distance you shoot pistols at negates MOA measurements with calipers.
If you lock a gun in a vice and screw it to a bench and pull the trigger, who cares. It means nothing in the real world or in terms of real practical accuracy. I've never fired a pistol that couldn't accomplish this in all fairness.
I don't do accuracy competitions etc also to be fair. There's probably things people do with handguns where 0.34" accuracy with a pistol may win or lose you the gold cup and internet bragging rights at the John Wick shoot competition or something I guess....
I suppose we'll just call it my unpopular 2 cents on the subject

 

[gwhysow]

CZ P09 by 100 miles.

 

[johnl]

Get out and shoot

 

[DanRR]

Get out and shoot

30 feet, indoor, playing card folded only to see the thickness of it, Smith and Wesson model 10, 4" fixed sights, 38 spl reloads wad cutters, 4 hits single action out of 6; tried double action....very hard.
You can do that only with wad cutters that offer a 9mm flat surface when a lead round nose prints a grey line on the sides of the card.

I don't want to hi-jack the thread, just illustrate what johnl said.....practice, practice and practice again....you have to do your part.
We all saw people shooting very well regardless the pistol/revolver they use.
One of the PPC fellow shooters used a S&W model 10, fixed sights, 5" barrell and was ranked Grand Master.

 

[sunmoong]

I have small hands, so I'd say stock G48 fits me very well so far and I feel more comfortable to shoot it than pistols, and accuracy follows for sure.

 

[ZREXER]

###

 

[Anthrax]

It's actually even very accurate with factory ammo so I can just imagine hand loads. I'm soon going to be developing a 124gr load for mine

That beep throws mine off all the time too... Must be CZ thing...

 

[Rich LPS]

Check out the firearm blog. A while back they did some extensive tests....

Winner, Sig X5, close second S&W PPC-9....

For me my Sig X5 X Series is the most accurate, S&W PPC-9 was a close second. Walther PPQ is a very, very, close third.
For the money the Walther PPQ cannot be beat. If you disagree please come out to a PPC match and try...

Rich

 

[Euro]

Yeah you're both right. I can barely rack the slide
Pistols are close range firearms. Defensive tools. Quick drawing and putting 8 rounds into a 12" circle in under 5 seconds IS pistol accuracy evidence a plenty.
I've owned and fired everything from a TT33 to a 92FS, 1911's in 9mm and 45 ACP to a Sig 226 and every major design in between and some oddballs over the many years.
I haven't owned a semi auto that couldn't accomplish this.
The distance you shoot pistols at negates MOA measurements with calipers.
If you lock a gun in a vice and screw it to a bench and pull the trigger, who cares. It means nothing in the real world or in terms of real practical accuracy. I've never fired a pistol that couldn't accomplish this in all fairness.
I don't do accuracy competitions etc also to be fair. There's probably things people do with handguns where 0.34" accuracy with a pistol may win or lose you the gold cup and internet bragging rights at the John Wick shoot competition or something I guess....
I suppose we'll just call it my unpopular 2 cents on the subject

So you strike me as a “defensive” conceal carry wishing kinda guy. Where did this 10m 12” group in 8 seconds come from? If that is your gold standard for defending yourself you need to train more. At 10m a decent shooter should draw and shoot in 1.1secs and have splits of .20 at this range and keep that within 6”. If your splits are ~.6/.7 you are either not holding that gun or over confirming your sights and pulling shoots.

 

[Travis Bickle]

So you strike me as a “defensive” conceal carry wishing kinda guy. Where did this 10m 12” group in 8 seconds come from? If that is your gold standard for defending yourself you need to train more. At 10m a decent shooter should draw and shoot in 1.1secs and have splits of .20 at this range and keep that within 6”. If your splits are ~.6/.7 you are either not holding that gun or over confirming your sights and pulling shoots.

Good enough for a pistol comrade. Good enough

 

[Still alive]

Sorry Euro,
10m, draw in 1.1s, 0.2s splits and keeping everything in 6” is NOT a “decent” shooter.....it’s a magnificent shooter! Maybe standards are higher in Europe?

I doubt many ERT trained LE can do that. There are lots of guys who can achieve part of your requirements but rarely can do all of them consistently.

I’ve been to many courses, shot many matches and trained with many people, I’ve only seen something similar consistently with 2 people locally, one is Slavex and the other is ironman0731. Both are Master Level shooters in their discipline. The other one I’ve seen personally is Bob Vogel when he taught our course.

I would say a “ decent” shooter can draw in 1.5s, split in 0.3- 0.4s and make 12” hits at 10m.

 

[Scotty454]

So you strike me as a “defensive” conceal carry wishing kinda guy. Where did this 10m 12” group in 8 seconds come from? If that is your gold standard for defending yourself you need to train more. At 10m a decent shooter should draw and shoot in 1.1secs and have splits of .20 at this range and keep that within 6”. If your splits are ~.6/.7 you are either not holding that gun or over confirming your sights and pulling shoots.

...Do you actually do any sort of action shooting? What you just described is going to be the upper end of good shooters. Definitely not the standard of a "decent shooter".

 

[thebigbully]

X2!!!!! Ref the USP

Mine was a tack driver off of a rest. Used to get a fair bit of attention on busy ranges......

 

[grinder08]

Pardini GT 6. If it doesn't hit what you aim at it is your fault pure and simple.

 

[Euro]

...Do you actually do any sort of action shooting? What you just described is going to be the upper end of good shooters. Definitely not the standard of a "decent shooter".

Yes I do, and that is a decent shooter, someone in B class can pull that off for problem. Someone upper end, some A or M class, can be an easy sub 1 draw with some jail bait splits at 10m. What is described in someone in D class imo.

@Still Alive, well it matters what ERT unit training you are talking about, some of them are a joke. If you watch Bob Vogel talk in podcast and on youtube about the standards needed to pass when he was the training guy for SWAT in the US, it was silly. Bob Vogel would be doing like .14 splits lol.

Maybe I just put higher standards on what is good, just different view than most?


Speaking of 9mm accuracy has anyone seen the new P320 X5 Legion? Looks Gucci.

 

[bWONGER]

+1 for shadow

 

[OkayShooter]

CZ SP01. Fist size is good enough for me. I can normally keep it within the 10 and 9 ring on a B27 target, shooting PPC, 20M is where I blow it normally,