9mm pistol accuracy

Euro said:
Yes I do, and that is a decent shooter, someone in B class can pull that off for problem. Someone upper end, some A or M class, can be an easy sub 1 draw with some jail bait splits at 10m. What is described in someone in D class imo.

@Still Alive, well it matters what ERT unit training you are talking about, some of them are a joke. If you watch Bob Vogel talk in podcast and on youtube about the standards needed to pass when he was the training guy for SWAT in the US, it was silly. Bob Vogel would be doing like .14 splits lol.

Maybe I just put higher standards on what is good, just different view than most?


Speaking of 9mm accuracy has anyone seen the new P320 X5 Legion? Looks Gucci.
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I’ve seen Vogel shoot up close and personal. Yes, he can draw at hit at 0.78s easy. And he splits in the low 0.2s easily and can hit the 0.1s if he goes hard. But Vogel is way above a “decent” shooter.

If you say my description is a D class shooter, then I must just suck! LOL!
 
A Pardini is the hands down nicest most accurate 9mm Ive ever shot, it made me look like a pro after just a few rounds. The balance and feel was incredible. Second best was a Wilson Combat 1911, which again made me look good. Something is to be said for the quality of the tools you use for the job.
 
the only real accuracy testing I did with 9mm was for my 929, working up some different loads - just because I can ... lol.

Even with a scope and a tuned trigger, the larger groups was all due to me and not the gun or ammo.

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Euro said:
Yes I do, and that is a decent shooter, someone in B class can pull that off for problem. Someone upper end, some A or M class, can be an easy sub 1 draw with some jail bait splits at 10m. What is described in someone in D class imo.

@Still Alive, well it matters what ERT unit training you are talking about, some of them are a joke. If you watch Bob Vogel talk in podcast and on youtube about the standards needed to pass when he was the training guy for SWAT in the US, it was silly. Bob Vogel would be doing like .14 splits lol.

Maybe I just put higher standards on what is good, just different view than most?


Speaking of 9mm accuracy has anyone seen the new P320 X5 Legion? Looks Gucci.
Click to expand...
Your generalizations kinda generally bite. lol!

I'm an A-class shooter, and definitely cannot draw in 1.1 sec at 10m in an IPSC A-zone consistently. No way. 1.4 sec is more like it for me, if i were to be consistent. Good thing my class ranking is based on more than my draw times, otherwise I guess I'd be in D-class forever. lol!

A 1.1 sec draw, with 0.2 sec splits, into 6" at 10m, is essentially saying a B-class shooter can CONSISTENTLY do 2.1 sec Bill Drills at 10m into an IPSC target. I call BS, at least for the B-class shooters in my area. My personal best is 2.34 sec into an IPSC target at 10 yds, and that's definitely not consistent.

I've also shot with Vogel and when I did splits in the .12-.13 range, he told me himself he doesn't shoot that fast. So you're off again.

Anyhow, much of this is all quite pointless, except to show that people have some strange benchmarks for whatever reason. Let's keep trying to improve our skills, and remember that there is much more to this shooting thing that any one stat.
 
I dont want this reply to come off negative in any way, but it seems your putting alot of emphasis on draws when a 1.1 vs 1.4-1.5 draw only accounts for a few seconds in a match total time. In the game i play accuracy is way more important than shaving a few tenths off a draw, better to be a bit slower and get down zeros than be .2-.4 faster and have it cost 1-3seconds or more. In almost every dynamic sport movements and speed in moving is usually right up there in the importance scale.

I took a weekend vogel course with still alive and jimbo, he was very very clear on what it takes to win matches, it sure as hell wasnt a fast draw. His take on splits is to try to be in the low .20’s. That way he can be fast enough to shoot on on target accurately and be efficient in his movements to get to the next target array.

Bragging about fast draws and reload times is great and fun to jab at friends, but more often than not makes the bragger look like a pompous ass eventually. I can do the 1.1 draws and hit 6-8” at 10 yards, 80% of the time, follow up shots with a .2-.25 split im still on target, any faster and risks go up dramatically. I aim for a 1.3-1.4, and 1.5-1.7 from concealment garment. Fun to be fast, and especially to talk about it on the internet. Ive seen b class and a class shooters, shoot, very few can do what you claim with a great deal of success. Unless the shooters in your area are way better than here.

Can i ask what sport you shoot in and what level your at?



Euro said:
Yes I do, and that is a decent shooter, someone in B class can pull that off for problem. Someone upper end, some A or M class, can be an easy sub 1 draw with some jail bait splits at 10m. What is described in someone in D class imo.

@Still Alive, well it matters what ERT unit training you are talking about, some of them are a joke. If you watch Bob Vogel talk in podcast and on youtube about the standards needed to pass when he was the training guy for SWAT in the US, it was silly. Bob Vogel would be doing like .14 splits lol.

Maybe I just put higher standards on what is good, just different view than most?


Speaking of 9mm accuracy has anyone seen the new P320 X5 Legion? Looks Gucci.
Click to expand...
 
My CZ is accurate, at 10M, 100rds and first time out with it.
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Rich LPS said:
Check out the firearm blog. A while back they did some extensive tests....

Winner, Sig X5, close second S&W PPC-9....

For me my Sig X5 X Series is the most accurate, S&W PPC-9 was a close second. Walther PPQ is a very, very, close third.
For the money the Walther PPQ cannot be beat. If you disagree please come out to a PPC match and try...

Rich
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Which X5? I own a P320 X5 and I don't consider it a very accurate 9mm.
 
My PPQ M1 Navy is pretty damned accurate, as is my Shadow and my p226 Extreme... but all of them STILL can't outshoot my Pre-B CZ-75. "Made in Czechoslovakia" goodness...
 
Scotty454 said:
Distance, group size, round count and time are all relevant factors in what TB said. You seem to have just omitted 2 of those factors. 8 rounds in 5 seconds works out to .625 splits. Holding .625 MAX split times over 8 rounds and keeping them all in a 12" circle at 10m is better that I'd wager many could do (12" might be a little on the generous side, but still).

Also... What kind of miracle Jesus pistols did you own that could shoot SUB MOA at 200m?? Lol that's a pretty bold claim, that I kind of doubt many will believe without some kind of proof.
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As some already mentioned, that's B/C Class shooting. There was no mention of time, and the original question was "accuracy" with no mention of drawing from a holster or shooting under time, I readily concede that both of those change the equation.

Sorry for my delayed response, dealing with a family member in hospital and a totaled motorcycle...

As to what "miracle Jesus pistol", a couple of T/C Contenders, one in .22 K-Hornet and one in .223 (both of which could deliver pretty much on demand), as well as one 10" scoped Super Blackhawk (which did it a couple times but required much more concentration and far better eyesight than I now possess. I see upon reading again that "pistol" was stipulated in the post that I responded to, while I was reading "handgun" - I therefore withdraw my criticism (if it was taken thusly) of TB.

As to "pistol" accuracy - I took money off a bunch of folks at Connaught back in the day shooting a pretty much stock 1911 on Fig 11's at the 100m line, but far from sub MOA...
 
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Still alive said:
Sorry Euro,
10m, draw in 1.1s, 0.2s splits and keeping everything in 6” is NOT a “decent” shooter.....it’s a magnificent shooter! Maybe standards are higher in Europe?

I doubt many ERT trained LE can do that. There are lots of guys who can achieve part of your requirements but rarely can do all of them consistently.

I’ve been to many courses, shot many matches and trained with many people, I’ve only seen something similar consistently with 2 people locally, one is Slavex and the other is ironman0731. Both are Master Level shooters in their discipline. The other one I’ve seen personally is Bob Vogel when he taught our course.

I would say a “ decent” shooter can draw in 1.5s, split in 0.3- 0.4s and make 12” hits at 10m.
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This is spades. Euro if by "Decent" you are talking average IPSC/IDPA type shooter say B Class to Sharpshooter in IPSC/ IDPA then Still Alive has nailed it. What Euro is describing is a bit beyond any common description of decent and well into Master Class and beyond. I would think, using Still Alive's 1.5 draw and .3-.4 splits into a 8 inch circle would be fairly common target at the IDPA Sharpshooter level. Maybe not consistent but certainly not uncommon.

All my 9MM pistols shoot better than I can and always reflect my ability at the time of testing which is unfortunate as with every new purchase there lies a hope the new gun will do better than the last wonder gun purchased. Alas, I have to date, searched in vain.

Take Care

Bob
 
Sorry for confusion, Real X5 -X Series. The P320 X5 is no slouch though, I find it to be very accurate as well, but not as good as the PPQ...strangely.

Rich
 
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