Terry_G, those are some really great accessories and tool posts. Well done ! ! ! MBiz, that's the sort of stuff you can make to use on your lathe which can greatly add to your skills and knowledge. And not only for turning the controls but also for learning the most important aspect of machining...... How to hold parts to achieve what you want to make. Jigging and work holding is often 80% of the job with the actual metal cutting only 20% or even less. I'm sure the others will agree that it's not unusual to make bits and pieces and rig up and measure setups that might take an hour or more to get to holding the actual work piece in the right place and check it for position. Then spend less than 5 minutes actually turning solid stock into chips. Teaching you how to make chips is easy. Learning the tricks and techniques for holding work is a never ending education.
Your advice on an used metal lathe
- Thread starter MBiz
- Start date
I have an old Altas 10f 52" bed, 4 & 3 jaw chucks, replaced the lantern tool post with a quick change post and inserts + some carbide tooling - what I can say is:
1. Listen to everyone about leveling and securing, make sure it is bolted down, stable and vibration free, then you can skip the "why can't I get a good finish" part of the learning curve
2. the gears on the 10f/Altas lathes are cast metal and break very easily (I suspect the older south bends are as well) - listen to your machine (if you go 'vintage') it will tell you when it feels sick, stop what you are doing, figure it out and fix it or you get broken gears.
3. I saw one pic of a guy with a drill chuck mounted on the carriage? don't do that on an Altas, the carriage gear box cannot take that kind of stress. (ask me how I know, dare you!) that will cost you better than $300 to fix. In fact on the Atlas, it's best to keep your cuts light anyway, it's not a real high HP machine.
4. gears and replacement parts for these are readily available, there is one guy that makes replacement gears from solid steel stock as well (a definite upgrade - http://www.mymachineshop.net - you can email and talk to the guy, he is super helpful!)
5. I can't mount a 44" muzzle loading barrel on the 52" bed, 8" taken up by tailstock + 4" by chuck & the clearance through the arbour is less than 3/4" - does not fit. check your arbour clearance on anything first!
6. some say don't others say 'look it up on google' I say "buy a copy of the Machinery's handbook" - especially if you plan on a lot of thread cutting.
7. Did anyone say learn your speeds and feeds? Good. (in the machinery's handbook) I have cheat sheets pasted up all over the place, including at my wood cutting and drilling stations.
"speeds and feeds" got it? good! learn it, live it, love it.
I do have the Krar book, possibly on your advice. On MH, and threads. If the OP were going to look up the specs for a particular CLASS of thread fit, MH rocks. If he just wants to cut a thread that fits well and works, he's wasted any money he spent on Machinery's Handbook.
On speeds and feeds. Esp, those in Machinery's Handbook. Those are speeds and feeds expected to make the shop owner the best return of investment on his wages, mortgage, tooling costs, etc., all in a balanced formula.
For home shop work, on non-industrial grade machines, they make pretty good reading when you have run out of interesting graffiti on the sh**house wall. Again, pretty much wasted money.
And, for a bonus hack at MH. Dig in to your copy and tell me if you can find the specs on a UNJ thread form in there. We used to make a lot of those in one of the shops I worked in. So many, it became one of the threads that the apprentice projects included, which after they were made, were checked on an optical comparator for accuracy.
from the sounds of it the OP may not be experienced enough to swap belts around looking for a speed that 'feels good', probably not having a datum point for what 'good feels like'
- knowing (at least roughly) where to start will increase tool life, machine wear, quality of cut/finish and him having to sit there through 30 cuts when he could have done some math and made 3 ... as for cost, well OK. you got me there MH is EXPENSIVE, however you don't need the latest edition, as far back as 18/19/20 still has all the basics. keep trolling the church book sales, library clearances and yard sales - someone will not know what it is worth (my original from college wound up in a church sale I think ... a buddy of mine gave me his . full size! with copy you can read!!)
if the OP went out and dropped $150 on a brand new copy, he'd probably curse me... then again, they hold their value. (and honestly mine get's the most workout looking up drill/tap sizes)
UNJ? yup, it is there pg.1791 MH ed.25 .... interesting. never ran across that one, never looked at it in MH. jammed in between British buttress & whitworth threads (again - neither if which I have tripped over before)
a good basic understanding of speeds and feeds will save chipped carbide, melted HSS, burned drills, frustration, time and ground up gears ....
Multiple editions of Machinery's Handbook can be downloaded for free on the internet. Not as nice as having a hard copy, but can't beat the price. I believe older editions tend to be of more value to the hobby machinist, since they don't dwell on CNC and such.
There are also online charts for surface feet per minute for HSS and carbide for maximum values on a variety of materials. And to apply those numbers to work in the lathe again there are calculators online that can be used with input of the diameter of the work, the desired SFM and out spits the required RPM for those inputs. Then pick the RPM setting that is just under that amount.
Or if drilling a hole in the work held in the lathe get the SFM value for the material and use the diameter of the drill and the SFM value from the chart and it'll tell you the RPM to use.
Do this a few dozen times and pretty soon you get a pretty good idea of the "feel" for RPM for each job.
I do find that my tool life is far better if I go for SFM values that are about 60 to 75% of the maximums given in the usual charts that can be found online. In particular with drills that are up around 5/16 and bigger they seem to cut better and the drills last a LOT longer running at SFM values of around 50 to 60% of the ones in the table.
On steps towards learning I did find a lot of the books to be excellent sources of knowledge. The South Bend book is pretty good and I also recommend it. But as well as that I really liked L.H.Sparey's book "The Amateur's Lathe". It mostly focuses on the use of the Myford but lathes are lathes and the procedures for so much we do is given in that book along with some great illustrations. These books have been around for a long time. Check out your local public library to see if they have a copy or any other good books on machining.
Or if drilling a hole in the work held in the lathe get the SFM value for the material and use the diameter of the drill and the SFM value from the chart and it'll tell you the RPM to use.
Do this a few dozen times and pretty soon you get a pretty good idea of the "feel" for RPM for each job.
I do find that my tool life is far better if I go for SFM values that are about 60 to 75% of the maximums given in the usual charts that can be found online. In particular with drills that are up around 5/16 and bigger they seem to cut better and the drills last a LOT longer running at SFM values of around 50 to 60% of the ones in the table.
On steps towards learning I did find a lot of the books to be excellent sources of knowledge. The South Bend book is pretty good and I also recommend it. But as well as that I really liked L.H.Sparey's book "The Amateur's Lathe". It mostly focuses on the use of the Myford but lathes are lathes and the procedures for so much we do is given in that book along with some great illustrations. These books have been around for a long time. Check out your local public library to see if they have a copy or any other good books on machining.
My 5 cents, don't dismiss a 3 phase machine as small VFDs are inexpensive and easy to install. KBC in BC has some decent quality import tooling that is very cost effective. For threading,buy a set of thread guage wires. Even top shelf ones are cheap and then there is no question as to sizing. Taiwanese made machines are actually pretty good. the difference between an "ordinary" lathe and a high precision "tool room" version is less than 0.001" and at least double the cost. Cheap brazed carbide tooling isn't worth it IMHO and is a PITA to resharpen. Carbide insert tooling can be nice but can become a very expensive rabbit hole, High cobalt HSS tool bits can be customized much easier on a standard grinder with a decent wheel.
Yeah. Older editions. I will snatch up any older copies of MH, but I won't pay more than $20, and usually $5-$10.
They make pretty good giveaways to hand to other guys that are starting out. For free or really cheap, by all means, grab one. But running out and buying one, and expecting it to be a useful tool to help you learn how to run a lathe, or any other machining related skill, is a false hope, and bad advise from folks that figure it is a requirement.
When there was no internet full of data to draw upon, Machinery's Handbook was as close as most machinists got, to a full on Technical Library full of reference materials.
many times a 3 phase machine will be considerably cheaper, many lathes are not capable of switching to a single phase motor, with a 3 phase motor it will run totally vibration and noise free, a single phase motor has a hum to it and will resonate thro the lathe.
3 phase machines will also have 3 phase motors on the coolant and the switch panel will be hard to convert.
as stated one can get converters for relatively cheap, there are plans on the internet to convert a old motor to a rotary converter, this will allow you to run additional machines from it such as mill, grinder, saw ect
forgot to pay the rogers bill and you need to cut an internal left hand metric thread ...
Not seeing any issues that can't be solved by sitting down and sketching it out on paper, as well as doing a little wee bit of trig and other maths.
Saying this, knowing full well that if you were making parts for NASA, or such, you WOULD be doing it either to a specification, or to a drawing that you would have in hand.
Otherwise, it's just the same 60 degrees thread.
Now, Machinery's handbook might tell you major and minor diameters, and have a picture of the thread form. Technology of Machine Tools actually shows a picture of how to set up for left hand thread cutting.
MH is a good reference source, the mother of all wall charts. But it's a poor choice for a beginner.
The MH book can certainly come in handy. But so far I've always found what I needed on the web or just made do. I don't yet have a copy of any age. And it hasn't held me back. Better are some of the other books that describe work holding and point out how 80 or even 90% of being a machinist is figuring out how to hold the work and the best order to do the steps to avoid any troubles later on and learning how to move the handwheels smoothly for hand fed cuts so as to get a nice finish.
MBiz, things are running wildly astray from your first question. Hopefully it's not too overwhelming. But if nothing else it gives you a peek at how much there is to learn. The good news though is that you can do a lot of good work while you learn as you go.
MBiz, things are running wildly astray from your first question. Hopefully it's not too overwhelming. But if nothing else it gives you a peek at how much there is to learn. The good news though is that you can do a lot of good work while you learn as you go.
ANY lathe, no matter how worn or crappy, if it is on your bench, is better than the mostest perfect lathe ever, in a brochure picture!
Whatever lathe you do get, I can generally say that condition and the care with which it was kept, is usually pretty apparent.
www.lathes.co.uk, is a great reference source for identifying a small lathe (small, meaning you probably won't need a crane to lift it) and they have a LOT of pictures of the various makes and their accessories.
Voltaire is credited with the quote "Perfect is the Enemy of Good". Don't get tied in knots looking for the 'perfect' lathe, you could go your whole life without finding it. Buy a lathe, use it, learn it's foibles and learn how to make it work FOR you.
Another good read, if you track it down, is an essay by a machine tool dealer in the states, titled "In (modest) praise of Klunkers" IIRC. Another fella preaching that looking for perfection wastes a LOT of time you could otherwise be making good parts on a good enough lathe.
Whatever lathe you do get, I can generally say that condition and the care with which it was kept, is usually pretty apparent.
www.lathes.co.uk, is a great reference source for identifying a small lathe (small, meaning you probably won't need a crane to lift it) and they have a LOT of pictures of the various makes and their accessories.
Voltaire is credited with the quote "Perfect is the Enemy of Good". Don't get tied in knots looking for the 'perfect' lathe, you could go your whole life without finding it. Buy a lathe, use it, learn it's foibles and learn how to make it work FOR you.
Another good read, if you track it down, is an essay by a machine tool dealer in the states, titled "In (modest) praise of Klunkers" IIRC. Another fella preaching that looking for perfection wastes a LOT of time you could otherwise be making good parts on a good enough lathe.
"MBiz, things are running wildly astray from your first question. Hopefully it's not too overwhelming. But if nothing else it gives you a peek at how much there is to learn. The good news though is that you can do a lot of good work while you learn as you go.[/QUOTE]"
I would not say things a running astray but we are doing a deep dive into the subject. I like it a lot the learn. Keep going
I would not say things a running astray but we are doing a deep dive into the subject. I like it a lot the learn. Keep going
I've found, sometimes an operation requires more thought than work.
Grizz
More often than not, really.
Set-up and alignment are the majority of the job, the actual cutting, typically is over in a few minutes.
Speed comes from experience. Experience comes from practice.
It takes a lot longer to finish the job, if you are afraid to start it!
