Rifle Config to Spot Trace? Can you watch your bullets fly?

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Maple57

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Do any of you guys run rifles that are configured in such a way that you can spot your own trace?

In PRS shooting at Meaford there is so much grass that it is impossible to spot off target impacts that miss the steel and then its a guessing game. Then we shoot left 1/2 target, right half target... hoping for a hit.

I know some guys run 6BRs for low recoil, and I suspect they may be able to recover from recoil fast enough to watch their bullets fly.

I guess there are different conditions to consider as well. Meaning from a weight of the rifle, certain muzzle brakes, prone supported position, or from a barricade, maybe with a game changer bag or something like that.

Any thoughts?
 
I suppose that minimized recoil would be the first thing to achieve, if there is going to be any chance of observing swirl.

Best way would be changing the rules to provide for two shooter teams, one shooter spotting for the other...
 
Pray for a humid day? Other then weighing and braking the gun to kill as much recoil as possible I don’t know
 
Low recoil, optimal weather conditions, good glass, wide field of view, and a distance where you can blink before you bullet makes impact.
Don't listen to the Fudds whos say you don't need a muzzle brake for less than a .338. Those guys shoot 3 shots a year if they're lucky and aren't concerned with spotting the flight path.
 
I have on a couple of occasions been able to consistently watch my own trace....oddly enough it was the same location each time, so the right conditions likely have a significant effect as well as keeping the rifle movement to a minimum.
Rifle was a PGW Coyote in .308 from prone and distance was 1100 meters (trace not visible at shorter distances on those days).
 
I've found spotting trace with a spotting scope is random and varies greatly with weather and humidity. I haven't seen or heard of anyone who can see the trace through their rifle scope. I'm not saying it doesn't happen though.
While spotting/scoring at Meaford last year, I could not see trace for the vast majority of shots fired. The odd time conditions changed and you could see trace and know the bullet would impact before it got to the target. YMMV.
 
The key to seeing trace is knowing where to look for it.

Start off shooting with holdover rather than dialing. You will see the trace drop out of the center of the reticle into your point of aim.

The Kestrel 5700 AB had a function to give you the height over sight line to see trace.

Follow through and recoil control are everything.

No more than 8-10x till you get onto seeing it.
 
Team work to see swirl consistently. Even then you need a fair bit of skill. Sure, the odd swirl is visible. But consistently is difficult and especially when it bears the target. On steel much easier because of movement of the plate compared to a tiny hole in paper. Practice more with all parts of the shooting, and spotting game. Both are a very quickly diminishing skill.

Like mentioned above, to spot your own swill you need fairly long ranges so you can resettle behind your optics.
 
theDuck said:
I've found spotting trace with a spotting scope is random and varies greatly with weather and humidity. I haven't seen or heard of anyone who can see the trace through their rifle scope. I'm not saying it doesn't happen though.
While spotting/scoring at Meaford last year, I could not see trace for the vast majority of shots fired. The odd time conditions changed and you could see trace and know the bullet would impact before it got to the target. YMMV.
Click to expand...


I see my own trace often.
 
rgv said:
The key to seeing trace is knowing where to look for it.

Start off shooting with holdover rather than dialing. You will see the trace drop out of the center of the reticle into your point of aim.

The Kestrel 5700 AB had a function to give you the height over sight line to see trace.

Follow through and recoil control are everything.

No more than 8-10x till you get onto seeing it.
Click to expand...

This ^

Also you need to train yourself to be able to hold your reticle on target where you want it while un-focusing your eye from the target and focussing above the target at the right height to pick it up.

Start with a .223. I can spot the trace with my .223 prone from 300 yards out. 400-500 or so out for positional. You're also very unlikely to ever pick up trace reliably with anything bigger than a 6mm (other than prone past 800 or so yards). Like everything in shooting, it takes tons of focussed practice.
 
I put together this rifle for minimal recoil with the hope that I would easily see the swirl, vapor trail or trace, whatever you like to call it, and from the prone position I can often see it, but not always.

I did find that early in the day when the sun shines on the target, it was easier, but later in the day, when the target was in the shadow, it was harder to see trace with trees in the back drop.

The only testing I have done so far has been at fairly close range, like 380 yards. I figure it should get easier with greater distances with longer time of flight.

This MPA stock has an Arca rail on it in the picture, but I found it tracked better from a bag rest without it, since the forend is so smooth.

We fired from an obstacle as well and I guess you could say I was disappointed in how difficult it was to consistently see the bullets fly, I thought it would be easier.

The rifle is a Defiance action with a Cadex profile 1:7 Bartlien barrel in 223 throated so I can jam the lands with 75 grain Hornady ELDs with an OAL of 2.525", with a Cadex brake.

The only thing more I could think of is using a heavier barrel profile, but that's not going to happen any time soon, now that I'm in this far.

I just hope to find a technique that works... it's a race against time before the corn gets too tall to see the target... beans are better for my shooting practice.

Maybe we can hand our targets higher.

Fu1nQBw.png
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Maple57 said:
I put together this rifle for minimal recoil with the hope that I would easily see the swirl, vapor trail or trace, whatever you like to call it, and from the prone position I can often see it, but not always.

I did find that early in the day when the sun shines on the target, it was easier, but later in the day, when the target was in the shadow, it was harder to see trace with trees in the back drop.

The only testing I have done so far has been at fairly close range, like 380 yards. I figure it should get easier with greater distances with longer time of flight.

This MPA stock has an Arca rail on it in the picture, but I found it tracked better from a bag rest without it, since the forend is so smooth.

We fired from an obstacle as well and I guess you could say I was disappointed in how difficult it was to consistently see the bullets fly, I thought it would be easier.

The rifle is a Defiance action with a Cadex profile 1:7 Bartlien barrel in 223 throated so I can jam the lands with 75 grain Hornady ELDs with an OAL of 2.525", with a Cadex brake.

The only thing more I could think of is using a heavier barrel profile, but that's not going to happen any time soon, now that I'm in this far.

I just hope to find a technique that works... it's a race against time before the corn gets too tall to see the target... beans are better for my shooting practice.

Maybe we can hand our targets higher.

Fu1nQBw.png
[/IMG]
Click to expand...

You don't need to change anything on your rifle to spot trace from positional with it. Just more practice. It's that simple. If you can pick it up prone, it's there to see when shooting positional. Recoil management and looking in the right spot (unfocussing from the target and focussing higher in the reticle) are the keys. Try shooting positional with a .308 a bit to make sure your recoil management is on point, it will expose poor form that you won't notice when shooting your .223. I like to alternate between shooting my .308 and .223 to stay sharp.
 
rugbydave said:
You don't need to change anything on your rifle to spot trace from positional with it. Just more practice. It's that simple. If you can pick it up prone, it's there to see when shooting positional. Recoil management and looking in the right spot (unfocussing from the target and focussing higher in the reticle) are the keys. Try shooting positional with a .308 a bit to make sure your recoil management is on point, it will expose poor form that you won't notice when shooting your .223. I like to alternate between shooting my .308 and .223 to stay sharp.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I've been planning to do this summer, but I kinda thought it wouldn't be possible with the 308. I have a Cadex in 308 too.

But... you have me thinking now... you can spot trace fairly consistently even with your 308?
 
Maple57 said:
That's exactly what I've been planning to do this summer, but I kinda thought it wouldn't be possible with the 308. I have a Cadex in 308 too.

But... you have me thinking now... you can spot trace fairly consistently even with your 308?
Click to expand...

Nope, can't see trace at all with my .308, just with my .223, 6mm and very rarely my 6.5mm. The thing with shooting light recoiling calibers is that you can get away with ####ty recoil management and barely or not come off target. The thing with that is that self-spotting trace requires the utmost in stability. I can support my .223 a certain way while shooting positional and spot my hits or misses but when I use that same method with my lighter .308, I get pushed way off target by the recoil. So I figure out what I have to do to stay on target with the .308 and then apply that to shooting the .223 or 6mm. Does that make sense? The improvement in recoil management is imperceptible unless you're really looking for your trace. Hope that helps.
 
I set up my spotting scope with a phone scope adaptor and video it in slow motion. I have a blue tooth remote to start recording when I’m just ready to shoot.

GC
 
Gas Can said:
I set up my spotting scope with a phone scope adaptor and video it in slow motion. I have a blue tooth remote to start recording when I’m just ready to shoot.

GC
Click to expand...

That works from a bench... been there done that... I've gone so far as to bring out my 12 volt jumper pack with a 110 volt converter in the cigarette lighter to power a 28 inch high def computer monitor and feed the video from a micro 4/3 camera fitted with a 300 mm lens... on a m4/3 camera that's 600 mm of magnification, then digitally double that for 1200 mm of zoom.

Basically its a big screen video display for a spotting scope...

Again, fine from a bench but not the solution we want for PRS.
 
theDuck said:
I've found spotting trace with a spotting scope is random and varies greatly with weather and humidity. I haven't seen or heard of anyone who can see the trace through their rifle scope. I'm not saying it doesn't happen though.
While spotting/scoring at Meaford last year, I could not see trace for the vast majority of shots fired. The odd time conditions changed and you could see trace and know the bullet would impact before it got to the target. YMMV.
Click to expand...

I had a Cadex in 6.5 Creedmoor. Heavy gun, good brake, low recoil cartridge, decent scope (Bushnell DMRII) and I could often spot my trace. A solid shooting position is equally important.
 
Since your shooting an MPA chassis you can add weight by getting there weight kit. No need for a heavier barrel. Its also good for adjusting the balance point of your rifle.
 
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