Shot load versus Shot speed for wingshooting?

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dreamwaters

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I have been bouncing back and forth among different brands of shotshells for hunting (ducks, pheasant, grouse mostly). I have started patterning different loads with the goal of settling on a couple of different loads to cover my hunting, so that I can order a case instead of running around to try to find what I want every other Friday night, and settling on something I don't like cuz it's all I can get in Halifax! Specifically, I'm thinking about steel, but my questions would relate to lead as well. Given that all of my shooting is wingshooting, and the main problem with lead is it's loss of inertia with distance compared to denser non-tox or lead, I am wondering about the relative value of shot load versus shot volocity.

Let's take #2 steel for example. The brand that I like is available in 2.75, 3, 3.5 and a variety of load sizes, increasing in muzzle velocity from 1300 to 1625 fps. Of course, the heavier the load the slower the muzzle velocity. What are your opinions of the relative killing power of the smaller loads of faster shot versus the slower loads with more shot in them? If you put more shot out there, there's a better chance of hitting, and hitting a lethal spot, but if it's lost too much energy by the time it gets there, then you'd have been batter with less, but faster, shot. One way to get the best of both worlds is to shoot 3.5", which I don't mind, but even within the 3.5 there are four options of shot/speed. What are your opinions? Does speed kill, or it is more important to get some shot onto the bird???
Thanks,
-DW
 
Imho, speed kills with steel shot, within say 40 yards, as it slows fast after that. Lead is just the opposite, lots of shot, preferrably large shot, at modest speeds delivers killing patterns well beyond 40 yds. if you can hit at those ranges. High speeds don't hurt the patterning of steel shot as it does not deform and tends to pattern tight. High speeds can deform lead shot and cause poorer patterns in most cases. No matter what, lead is more effective overall due to is density vs steel shot.
 
I think this subject is very interesting. My opinion, is that more time spent at the skeet/sporting clays fields will net you more game, than any speed versus weight topic. Mind you, every shotgun patterns differently, so that should be a big consideration. Find a shell, 2 3/4", 3" or 3 1/2 that patterns well out of your gun and use those. A well placed, well patterned 2 3/4 shell will do all you need it to do, without kicking the crap out of the operator. I have found the Kent Faststeel's to pattern quite reasonably out of my gun, they are also fairly fast compared to the competitors and cheaper. I use #4's for Ducks and #2's for geese in the early season, then step up to BB's as the geese get more fat on them. I usually buy these buy the flat, cause I loves waterfowling:D

7.62mm
 
Speed kills. You can put a POUND of lead shot onto a goose but if it just bounces off the feathers, it'll keep on flying. You've got to have pellets that penetrate feathers, fat, and muscle and break bones or hit organs.

Then pattern the gun with diff chokes and ranges, and see where you start getting weak patterns - imagine a duck or goose on that patterning board, and see how many pellets have hit it. Try to get, what, 5 or 6? into the body.
 
Thanks for these replies. I shoot at least once a week at clays in a hunting setting (with a string-opperated thrower from various angles, positions, distances). I plan to pattern whatever shells I try, but thought that I'd choose the most likely shot that I'm likely to stick with for most of my waterfowling and pattern that as a starting place.
Thanks!
-DW
 
I prefered slow lead over fast steel because I could load my own.I never had any problems killing ducks/geese out to 50yds with 2.75'' #5 or#6 shot.I could load my own for about $5-$7 a box,and could use my old fixed choke shotgun.

One thing I don't understand is I can't use lead for waterfowl,but I can shoot skeet over water as much as I want using lead.Go figure.
 
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Yeah, I've noticed that. I think think no shooters ask to many questions about it in case they shut down all the clubs that shoot over water!!!
-DW
 
I use moderate loads of lead shot for upland & taget shooting. It just doesn't pay to push lead too fast, as Ben Hunchak explained previously.

For waterfowl, I personally gave up pass shooting years ago. So for decoying ducks and geese, within 40 yards, I use a light, fast load of steel in 12gs. 2-3/4", mostly Fassteel 1-1/16 oz of #1's. I shoot anywhere from one to two hundred birds per season with this. I don't need to switch betwen "duck" and "goose" loads, and my old Model 12/mod choke likes them. these loads kick a lot less than a heavy 3" shell, and I hit better with them. Because steel is not deformed on firing, patterns aren't blown when it is pushed hard. Fast pellet speed does help overcome light weight, but you still need to use fairly big pellets and the drag of air resistance overcomes the speed advantage very quickly, so you must limit your range.

I think one aspect of paper patterning that many people don't consider is the ridiculously long shot strings created by many 3" and 3-1/2" shells. It doesn't mater how many pellets hit a paper patterning target if a goose flying perpendicular to the shot string can fly between pellets that are all strung out. The current fashion in nearly everthing being marketed lately is "extreme" this-and-that. Moderate loads, moderate range, with good shooting skills are a more sensible and effective way to go.

One other comment to "captonion"- the non-toxic shot laws for waterfowl shooting are in place because lead shot in ponds kills ducks that eat it. If you and others continue to abuse the priveledge of using lead while target shooting over water, lead shot could be banned for all of us, for all puposes. Use common sense please, and shoot responsibly. There are good steel shot target loads available for shooting over water. Yes, they cost a couple of bucks more per box, but what's the point of poisoning waterfowl for no good reason?
 
Longwalker said:
One other comment to "captonion"- the non-toxic shot laws for waterfowl shooting are in place because lead shot in ponds kills ducks that eat it.
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LMAO.You bought into this BS also.Fact is duck/geese populations are 10X what they where 80yrs ago.So I dont think that waterfowl dying from eating lead is an issue at all.If you believe it is you sir are lost in your own boots.

And for me shooting steel out of my old fixed choke Beretta for skeet is a no no.I will continue to do what I do because it is leagal to do so,and it shouldn't bother you.
 
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The U.S. gubment fudged the study that determined that lead shot was poisoning ducks. The study was done on a body of water that was perfect to get the desired result!! Perfect water/bottom conditions, depth,etc. and these results were used to represent all bodies of water.(the fix was on) The study did not look at the number of birds wounded due to steel shot, or any other factors.
 
The best duck hunter I know goes for 2 3/4-inch Kent Faststeel with 1 1/4-ounce loads of #3 shot going 1350 fps I think it is.

But he is an expert shot and decoy hunter.

But I'm not and so for what duck hunting I do I use Winchester or Federal 2 3/4 or 3 -inch shells with whatever load of #2 that goes 1550.

So far. I haven't had a chance to try patterning a box of Kent Fast Steel 2 3/4 -inch # 2 yet out of my IC and mod. choke to see what's best at 40 yards.
 
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