Tips for shooting semi-auto with combat sight

mactroneng

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Got my first 9mm a little while ago, a Girsan Regard MC, and I cannot for the life of me shoot the damn thing straight, only putting maybe half (give or take) my shots on an 11x17 paper at 20 yards. I can place all shots in a largish (say 6") group on a benchrest reliably with it. Also had this issue with a couple other guns I've tried (9mm and 45 ACP). I've put maybe 100 rounds through the new gun, plus a a dozen or so mags through other guns I've tried in the last 6 months.

I am by no means a good shot (wouldn't go as far to call myself half-decent) but I can put revolvers in the target rings pretty reliably at 20 yards with 6 o'clock sights and small-profile (for lack of a better term) fiber-optic combat sights, and I can get a pretty decent group with a 22 semi-auto pistol with a red dot sight.

Is it just a "need more practice" thing, or is there something I should be looking out for? I know I can flinch sometimes but I've been trying to work on it and I assume if that was my only problem I'd be doing just as bad with revolvers and the 22 pistol.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
 
Dry fire practice.
Shoot with both eyes opened.
Focus on the front sight.
Learn how to hold the gun correctly.
Learn how to pull the trigger correctly.
INTERNET IS YOUR FRIEND!
 
Dry fire, a lot. Practice, a lot.

If you're not hitting 11x17 paper than you're flinching, badly. Shooting a pistol is 80% flinch mitigation 20% everything else. Next time you're at the range load some dummy rounds in with live rounds just to see how bad you're flinching. Set your target a 10 yards (20 yards is too far for you right now). When your groups shrink at 10 yards go faster. When they shrink again go further. Repeat this process until you're back at 20 yards.
 
I start new shooters at 5 yds, working on nailing the fundamentals with tight groups. Flinches, etc really show up when you get a toonie sized group, with a lone flier somewhere. Then those few stray shots become points of education and the start of them developing self-diagnosis skills.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys, I will look into it.

Any thoughts as to why I seem to be having so many more problems with this semi-auto gun than my revolvers?
 
Best would be some one on one time from a known good shooter that is also decent at teaching.

In the meantime carry on with the .22. And try to focus on some basics. Some of those in no particular order being.....

  • First is your grip. Watch THIS VIDEO and pay attention to each part of how he develops the grip.
  • When you pull the trigger don't snatch at it. Instead build up pressure with the trigger finger and let the trigger move as it wants to move when it wants to move. At first make the pressure increase somewhat slowly. Like over about a half second from first touch to trigger break. Work on a smooth pressure build. Once you have it then work on a smooth and faster build. At no time should you ever snap or snatch at the trigger.
  • Hold the trigger back for a good follow through. Hold the trigger back during all the BANG and recoil kick. Only when it settles back down ease off the trigger pressure with the same care as you pulled it. This will aid with letting the BANG surprise you and you won't be tempted to react and jerk the gun.
  • Hold the gun with a firm grip but not a "death grip". You want to support the gun so it can't move around in your grip but you don't want your hands hanging on to where it over stresses your arms and hands. If you do then it is very difficult to isolate your trigger finger movement from non movement in the rest of your hand.

Basically if you are shooting a revolver from single action setting well that is only part of the battle. If you are using a double action revolver then try the things mentioned above. If you can learn and train yourself to shoot a DA revolver well with the long trigger travel smoothly then you'll do fine with a semi auto. Or at least it'll do a lot to help.

Dry firing is helpful for setting up the basics of all this. But as is so often the case if you're doing it wrong it does not pay to practice doing it wrong. When you dry fire carefully watch the sights for any sign of a twitch of the front sight. If it jumps consistently in one direction you are "loading up the gun" with side pressure that snaps when the trigger breaks. You should be able to pull through the break with the sight picture not twitching even in the slightest. For me getting a good neutral hold and trigger pull to where the sights don't move around is as far as I go with dry firing. It's too easy to realize that there won't be a BANG and recoil in my hands. At some point we need to add in the live fire to finish things.

I do not agree with the idea that if you have a bad flinch that rimfire shooting can help a LOT. It certainly did for me.

When I was beating away my bad flinch early on I'd shoot some .22 and get to where I was ignoring the BANG. I'd then switch to the 9mm and shoot until I felt the flinch coming back. At that point, even if it was mid magazine, I'd unload and set the 9 aside and go back to the .22 until I got my Zen like state of mind back. Then return to the 9 until I would get rattled and flinchy again. I feel like I could have beat the flinch in time but I also feel like the "rimfire therapy" sped up the banishing of the flinch by a big amount.
 
Some suggestions:

1) A 6 O'clock hold won't put rounds where you want them, centre the dot in the sights and put the dot directly on the target

2) practice (with an unloaded gun) breaking the trigger with a dime sitting across the top of the front sight, and releasing to reset while keeping the dime on the front sight.

3) you probably have too much finger on the trigger, use the middle of the trigger finger pad,(not the crease of the knuckle, like you do with a revolver) for everything after the first double action shot - it may help to switch after shot number one.

4) get a small post-it note and put it in the middle of your target, and shoot at that. "Aim small, miss small" isn't just a saying.
 
Some suggestions:

1) A 6 O'clock hold won't put rounds where you want them, centre the dot in the sights and put the dot directly on the target

I'm not trying to shoot the 9mm using a 6 o'clock hold. I am used to shooting revolvers, all of which do have a 6 o'clock hold, so the combat hold is new to me (and I've only been shooting handguns for about a year and a half anyways)

I appreciate the rest of your suggestions (and everyone else's).
 
If you learn to golf by practicing by yourself; or learn to ski by practicing by yourself, the best you can hope for is getting real good at golfing or skiing poorly.

Get a coach before you develop more bad habits.
 
I’m at the range right now, and just finished teaching two teens and their mom. This was their first time shooting pistols - ever. Mom needs more help, but the teens are getting it. How does 75% of the rounds inside 2.5” at 7 yds sound, with a 9mm?

Get a coach. It can save you a lot of grief.
 
If you learn to golf by practicing by yourself; or learn to ski by practicing by yourself, the best you can hope for is getting real good at golfing or skiing poorly.

Get a coach before you develop more bad habits.

Some of you make shooting sound like rocket science, lol.

Although it may be true for some, not everyone requires a coach to become a competent marksman. Can a coach help? Definitely, but so can videos. It all depends on what type of learning best suits the individual. Personally, I wouldn't bother with paid lessons unless I was trying to become a highly competitive shooter.

A lot of people say that just going to the range and shooting a $hit ton won't help but I beg to differ. Learn the basics, practice a lot, shoot a lot, get better.
 
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‘Practice a lot, shoot a lot, get better.’

Sure, that can work with some people. Go for it.

As an example of coaching though, I have a great track record of taking brand new shooters and getting them to group well, in under 1 box of ammo. I focus on quality, and helping them learn the right things to do from the first shot. They don’t get a chance to develop bad habits when I’m watching them.
 
I would suggest that you start out with a closer target and as you are able to reliably hit what you are aiming at you can start to add distance. Another important thing that I cannot emphasize enough is front sight focus. This a really important part of of a good sight picture. Additionally, have someone who is a good shooter fire your pistol and see how it prints for them. I have a Girsan Regard and it is a fine pistol and I can put the holes where I want them to be so its unlikely an equipment error but you never know and it is good to eliminate this possible cause. I would also say that you should be making all your shots in SA only. If all else fails, seek professional help. You cannot practice and improve if you do not know what needs improvement. Formal training will help you address any mistake you are making, things that you may believe you are doing right etc. It will help you prevent training scars, you don't want to get really good at doing it wrong.
Best of luck and keep us updated.
 
I have a great track record of taking brand new shooters and getting them to group well, in under 1 box of ammo. I focus on quality, and helping them learn the right things to do from the first shot. They don’t get a chance to develop bad habits when I’m watching them.

I’ve known Jimbo for a while now and I can testify to his coaching abilities. He is a great competitor and coach. I send my students to him for a once over when I get stumped.

A person may be able to improve on their own but you don’t know what you don’t know.

I was a competitive golfer for a long time and I’ve seen some people play with very awkward swings that somehow work. But these folks will only get to a point before their technique gets in their own way. I’m sure they never planned on looking like an octopus falling out of a tree but that’s what they look like. They must somehow think that they look like a Tiger Woods when they swing.
It’s the same with shooting. Ego and weird self perceptions will always limit your development. A good coach can catch these issues early and make the progress a lot quicker and smoother.
Get a coach and do your homework!
 
A combat type service pistol is the hardest h.g to shoot, in my humble opion.
I can shoot a revolver or a 1911 good, or a 22 target gun good as I have done it for years.
When I got my 9mm, I found I really had to pay attention to grip and trigger control.
These guns seem to fit you or it don't.
I and another fellow where helping a new shooter that sounds about like you, other than that was his first gun, which I disagree with, but that is just the old Fudd talking.
His grip was "loose" and inconsistent, and he was jerking the trigger. You could see the muzzle drop as he pulled the trigger.
P.S. actually , he had a death grip, but his wrists where loose, not locked in.
After a 1/2 hr he was keeping most of them in the center of 8/11" bulls eye targets I print on the commuter, at about 10yrs.
Grip you gun, look at the target , close your eyes, bring you gun up and look to see where the sights are, do it a few times, if way off, check/ change your grip, till the sights are on the center of the target when you open your eyes.
This works better after you get use to the gun a bit. I have never done very much dry firing , as I stared you shooting 22 target guns, and I don't dry fire them.
Practice...……………...Luck.
Thanks for all the advice guys, I will look into it.

Any thoughts as to why I seem to be having so many more problems with this semi-auto gun than my revolvers?
 
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