Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Man, that is smoking....glad the Shilen is running well for you. Being a chicken, I would throttle back BUT if that is where your barrel wants to run.
DANG....
Jerry
STAG 10 Build Accuracy 1.5-2 MOA
- Thread starter JNA
- Start date
Man, that is smoking....glad the Shilen is running well for you. Being a chicken, I would throttle back BUT if that is where your barrel wants to run.
DANG....
Jerry
Yes, it is cooking but it surprisingly doesn't show any concerning pressure signs. I generally do development to one grain over max published and I began seeing pressure signs around 45.8GR of varget. I do enjoy loading with varget but 4895 would likely produce more velocity and less pressure so I may re-do the test. I expect case life to be three firings or less. It does look promising from the little I have shot it, it seems to be really stacking them in a 200m.
If anyone is reading this and is actually looking for advice on loading I'd strongly recommend an adjustable gas block, coupled with a good buffer system and a high pressure bolt with a full mass carrier. If this load was run through a stock stag 10 it would be severely over gassed.
My advice to the op is to consider hand loading. If you know the right people you can usually get brass for next to nothing. If you do that you can load 175gr SMK's for roughly $90 per 100rnds vs 175 ish before tax for Gold Medal Match and if you consider picking up or borrowing a chronograph you'll save a ton of time and money on load development.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Sounds like an FTR load in a semi... Stout for sure but it looks like you have taken precautions to keep the moving bits taken care of...
Glad it is shooting well. Many good scores in the US have been shot with these Shilens.
Send some pics and info ....
All the best
Jerry
Glad it is shooting well. Many good scores in the US have been shot with these Shilens.
Send some pics and info ....
All the best
Jerry
I have a shilen barrel I bought from you and it's crazy accurate. It's a tight neck 22-250 and it's one of the most accurate rifles I own.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
That is fantastic... post some pics (I can set up a new post if interested)... or send me pics and info on your rifle and range results.
Was wondering how it was shooting... glad it is working very well for you.
Jerry
Hello Everyone,
Little bit of an update, I took the rifle out again to see if there were any factors I could take out of my normal shooting to see if I could get a better grouping. For the most part I was within the 1.6-1.7 range with a couple of 2 MOA groups, but I was able to get one 5 round group at 0.99 moa.
Please note that I changed the mount and scope from the Geissele super precision with Bushnell HDMR2 to my Spuhr mount and Vortex Razor Gen 2. I find that the open aiming point made it easier for me to shoot a little better, but the groups are still not coming down as much as I would like.
I was shooting the 168 grain SMK still, next step is to try the 155 as mentioned by the group however wanted to ask which should I try from Hornadys offerings:
Black, open Top match, AMAX Palma or ELD match?
I am also going to clean the rifle prior to the next shooting range and was thinking I might need a better stable rear stock than my Magpul fixed Moe to get a better grip on the rear bag. Does anyone have any recommendations on a light rear stock (not magpul PRS or Luth).
Little bit of an update, I took the rifle out again to see if there were any factors I could take out of my normal shooting to see if I could get a better grouping. For the most part I was within the 1.6-1.7 range with a couple of 2 MOA groups, but I was able to get one 5 round group at 0.99 moa.
Please note that I changed the mount and scope from the Geissele super precision with Bushnell HDMR2 to my Spuhr mount and Vortex Razor Gen 2. I find that the open aiming point made it easier for me to shoot a little better, but the groups are still not coming down as much as I would like.
I was shooting the 168 grain SMK still, next step is to try the 155 as mentioned by the group however wanted to ask which should I try from Hornadys offerings:
Black, open Top match, AMAX Palma or ELD match?
I am also going to clean the rifle prior to the next shooting range and was thinking I might need a better stable rear stock than my Magpul fixed Moe to get a better grip on the rear bag. Does anyone have any recommendations on a light rear stock (not magpul PRS or Luth).
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
Also consider testing a heavier bullet... many barrels prefer 175gr MK... I would start with start loads and work up in small powder increments
What powder charges did you use in your handloads?
If things still don't work, happy to help...
Jerry
What powder charges did you use in your handloads?
If things still don't work, happy to help...
Jerry
Got Juice?
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Peoples Republik of Kanukkistan
Sometimes even good shooters can chase a group. Here is something to try. Take out a BLANK sheet of paper. No lines or BS on it at all.
Take ONE shot (does not matter where, but Ideally somewhere near center)
Now concentrate, but stay loose, do a couple dry fires. cheek weld good? Are you locked but relaxed? Good. Now place the crosshair on the ONE shot you made. Pull the trigger. Now keep aiming for bullet hole #1 and squeeze trigger. Do this another 3 times. DO NOT WORRY if your POI doesnt coincide with your POA, you can adjust the scope later.
For now you want to see if the rifle groups regardless of POA/POI.
it has helped many in the past.
Take ONE shot (does not matter where, but Ideally somewhere near center)
Now concentrate, but stay loose, do a couple dry fires. cheek weld good? Are you locked but relaxed? Good. Now place the crosshair on the ONE shot you made. Pull the trigger. Now keep aiming for bullet hole #1 and squeeze trigger. Do this another 3 times. DO NOT WORRY if your POI doesnt coincide with your POA, you can adjust the scope later.
For now you want to see if the rifle groups regardless of POA/POI.
it has helped many in the past.
Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Summerland, BC
It is not always possible to luck into a factory load that does all that reloading can. If you want to send me the rifle, I will do a quick load work up with known components. It either will.. .or it will not. And if not, we can fix the issue. If it does, can't think of a better motivator to make the time to reload.
If not, good luck with the testing and I hope you bump into something that does what you want.
Jerry
1'' @ 100 with a semi is pretty much all you can ask for. I am of the opinion chasing more with a DMR is a bit ridiculous
You can get a deer at 800m with that. But you won't cause 800 is wayyy to far to take a deer with a 308. A 1'' @ 100 rifle is better than most shooters without a vise. Don't beat the rifle or yourself up just shoot
You can get a deer at 800m with that. But you won't cause 800 is wayyy to far to take a deer with a 308. A 1'' @ 100 rifle is better than most shooters without a vise. Don't beat the rifle or yourself up just shoot
RangerPark
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Near Edmonton, AB
I'm going through the same situation as you with my build but I'm using a Criterion barrel. There are many factors at play including my slow pace of adaptation to shooting the AR10 platform accurately.
Criterion has been very good at providing advice for my build. According to them, the main hiccup with my build was the use of the stock buffer system. The Stag 10 comes with a 3.2 oz AR308 length buffer in a carbine length buffer tube with matching spring. They advised me to get something like this:
https://www.armalite.com/product/ar10rekit01-6-position-receiver-extension-kit/
This kit has an intermediate length buffer tube that is 1" longer than the carbine tube but still allows the use of adjustable buttstocks. The intermediate tube is still shorter than an A2 rifle tube. The intermediate tube allows for the use of carbine length H3 buffers that usually weigh in at 5.5 oz. The Armalite kit comes with a rifle length buffer spring at 13 1/4" long, the same length you would use on an A2 tube. You can use an AR308 carbine length spring in the intermediate tube but it doesn't get compressed as much under recoil.
Now as with all cool things the Armalite kit can't be found in Canada. TNA sells an intermediate length buffer tube here:
https://truenortharms.com/ar15_default_store_view/cna-extended-buffer-tube-1in-for-308.html
I'm currently running my build with this tube, a H3 buffer and the stock Stag spring. I'm waiting on Brownell's for some JP Enterprises tuned and polished AR308 buffer springs in both carbine and rifle length to test them out.
I have seen accuracy improvements with this system so far but that can also be attributed to me learning to tame the platform. By now I've realized that I can't shoot the Stag from the bench at all, doesn't matter if it's with bags, bipods or sleds. The only way I can get repeatable results is with an Atlas bipod that I can actually load the same as I would on a bolt rifle. Prone with the Atlas and a solid rear bag seems to be the only way I can get consistent accuracy.
Things are improving but I'm still not there yet. My ultimate goal is to have the rifle in the 10 shots MOA at 300 yards thread. Then take it hunting this Fall and get myself a nice buck with it.
Someone mentioned HK MR308 - I was doing dot drill today and putting 3 rounds of RUAG 168 match inside a 1" dot at 100m. HK tends to shoot everything average well, but not super well. The "wide" buttstock pad and the short cheek piece are also different from most American system. It took me 500 rounds to figure out "my check list" to run this gun.
7.62 gas gun is harder to shoot because if the shooter doesn't have decent recoil control, it is easy to end up changing the cheek wield so slightly after every shot and inducing parallax error. If the gun is not set up properly and controlled, it will shake you out of position and walk away from you. This gets much worse in other positions. So like other said, gas guns amplify every weakness in shooting fundamentals. Being a small guy, I have to summon every ounce of my core strength and go through my fundamental check list much more due diligently to weld a 7.62 gas gun consistently, especially on barricade. I actually get exhausted - And in this game, big boys with some body mass and wider shoulder do have an advantage!
7.62 gas gun is harder to shoot because if the shooter doesn't have decent recoil control, it is easy to end up changing the cheek wield so slightly after every shot and inducing parallax error. If the gun is not set up properly and controlled, it will shake you out of position and walk away from you. This gets much worse in other positions. So like other said, gas guns amplify every weakness in shooting fundamentals. Being a small guy, I have to summon every ounce of my core strength and go through my fundamental check list much more due diligently to weld a 7.62 gas gun consistently, especially on barricade. I actually get exhausted - And in this game, big boys with some body mass and wider shoulder do have an advantage!
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Things I figured out with a gas gun ( as a small light dude) , it cannot be shot using the traditional "prone" posture. I used to think of "what I will do with a precision 5.56 AR that is just bigger", and then I started thinking how I would shoot a GPMG in accurate bursts, and I shot much better afterwards. - have to get behind the gun solidly. It does't mean using muscle to strong arm it, but using core strength and positioning the body solidly behind it. The tricky part is translating this to shooting behind barricade and other unconventional surfaces, especially using supported kneeling.
TheNatural21
CGN Regular
- Location
- Fort Nelson, BC
Threat caught my eye as I'm about to assemble the same thing in 6.5CM - stag 10 with custom McGowen barrel. The final parts for the upper have finally arrived!
I'd like to add a caution to the 155gn recommendation. I've found them to be very touchy so I doubt you'll find a winning factory load. When I did load development for a bolt action with the Hornady 155 BTHP Match I found that they were great in an accuracy node (0.7 MOA, average of 5x 5 shot groups at 100m), but just outside of the node things went south fast. I had a few loads that were well over 2 MOA with just a difference in powder charge. Other bullet weights didn't change nearly that much.
I'll let you know my experience with my build in a few days once I have a chance to put it together and do some load development.
I'd like to add a caution to the 155gn recommendation. I've found them to be very touchy so I doubt you'll find a winning factory load. When I did load development for a bolt action with the Hornady 155 BTHP Match I found that they were great in an accuracy node (0.7 MOA, average of 5x 5 shot groups at 100m), but just outside of the node things went south fast. I had a few loads that were well over 2 MOA with just a difference in powder charge. Other bullet weights didn't change nearly that much.
I'll let you know my experience with my build in a few days once I have a chance to put it together and do some load development.
Just for the heck of it try single feeding it instead of mag feeding it. I've seen semi auto guns print two distinct groups when being mag fed. 2 distinct 5 shot groups. 1 group from one side of the mag and another group from the other side.
