Canadian Forces C3 / M82 / P17 Target / 1200TX? / it has too many names at this point
- Thread starter Th3BadWolf
- Start date
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Don't know of any M82 that got surplus or of any group buy for civilians.
- Maybe the importer at the time brought-in some similar spec rifles.
- Being a Lt. Col in the RCR just gives you a better story
There are a number of M82 clones floating around. Just put a WTB add on CGN or Canadian Access to Firearms
IF the guy that had owned it was actually a LCol in the RCR, about as close as I could come to believing, would be that the unit gun plumbers might be disposed towards helping him build a replica C3, using a rifle he provided and skimming some of the uncontrolled parts out of the bins.
For anyone that does not actually know, while there is control on the civ side, of the serial numbered components, inside the CF it is quite a bit more paperwork and tracking, and there are controls over major components, in addition to just those parts with serial numbers. If a fella had the Canadian Forces Technical Order in hand, likely in the parts lists, there is a column of information that shows the repair-ability, and the accountability of each piece, along with at what level (Unit, depot, etc.) that repair should be carried out. Which, handily enough, provided the techs with a list of all the uncontrolled or non-repairable parts that they could order in, so they had them in hand for when needed, thus, the parts bins full of all sorts of goodies.
The Forces has always been pretty tight-arsed about control over weapons and weapons major parts. Mostly because they are expensive, but at least partly, to avoid the embarrassment of having to explain to the public why one of them was used in a crime.
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
He would have had to be on good really term with someone at in a service battalion. The weapon techs are usually not at the unit level unless on some specific events.
Depending how long ago that was, it could be that when the C3's were been replaced by the C14, some non-serialized parts that were scheduled for destruction ended up in the wrong bin.
Just about any parts can be sourced on the civilian market, if you know who the manufacturer is.
Depending how long ago that was, it could be that when the C3's were been replaced by the C14, some non-serialized parts that were scheduled for destruction ended up in the wrong bin.
Just about any parts can be sourced on the civilian market, if you know who the manufacturer is.
- Location
- Nova Scotia
Trusted... If he was trusted, he wouldn't told you it was a C3, and a Canadian sniper rifle. So that Sgt that sold it to the collector was a bull ####ter. And he passed the bull onto you. Im sure you will find the serial number on the receiver with Winchester, Eddystone, Or Remington, as the manufacture. Only ones that made the M1917. 8 just means the # 8. Its nothing special. A shooting team may have 10 rifles, with then being 1 - 10. Just a person will be assigned a number. There could be 100 of these models, just what ever team had at least 8.
But wonder where the OP is?
From my understanding there was a handful of actual C3/C3A1 rifles that were sitting in a safe at Parker Hale awaiting either refurbishing or destruction when the company closed up shop and that these rifles found their way onto the civilian market. They do pop up from time to time. Last one I seen for sale (C3A1) was in the UK and sold for just over $11,000 CDN if I remember correctly.
sillymike
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Everything is possible, but that story seems highly unlikely.
- Maybe Parker-Hale had some left-over M82 or 1200TX laying... that's quite possible.
$11,000 for a C3A1 ?
- I guess a fool and his money are soon parted... but hey! Who am I to judge.
If you search on UK sites, you'll see that M82/1200TX do come up.
Here's an interesting article on the M82
http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/eng/Parker_Hale_M82
- Maybe Parker-Hale had some left-over M82 or 1200TX laying... that's quite possible.
$11,000 for a C3A1 ?
- I guess a fool and his money are soon parted... but hey! Who am I to judge.
If you search on UK sites, you'll see that M82/1200TX do come up.
Here's an interesting article on the M82
http://self.gutenberg.org/articles/eng/Parker_Hale_M82
This is the one I was thinking of. The stock isn't original. Place claimed it was an original C3A1. It sold for £7000
Probably about 8 or 9 years ago there was a legit Unertl C3 day optic on eBay with a seller location of Victoria and a scratched objective lens, don’t know if it was a leftover or found its way out of Workpoint barracks way back when.....I think the Buy it Now was $3100 Cdn at the time.
The UK rifle has a USO repro scope as the originals did say C3 but had the Unertl Optical Co. logo instead. A few people in the last MST orders from USO requested custom engraving. Plus other photos of that rifle show the elevation turret goes to “10” for 1000 yards, and the C3A1 Unertls were cammed for metres and 800m max. The scope mount looks for real and are pretty rare. It’s a nice looking rig none the less, add an Olive/Grey marble finish McMillan A2 stock and your getting pretty close.
I went to the Historical Arms Society? gun show in Chilliwack in the spring and a guy there had a scope mount for a C3A1 Unertl combo but was asking $1000 for it. I thought to myself, okay after I spend that, plus $4500 for a USO, then I still have to find an M83/M84 donor rifle and DBM etc etc.......
The UK rifle has a USO repro scope as the originals did say C3 but had the Unertl Optical Co. logo instead. A few people in the last MST orders from USO requested custom engraving. Plus other photos of that rifle show the elevation turret goes to “10” for 1000 yards, and the C3A1 Unertls were cammed for metres and 800m max. The scope mount looks for real and are pretty rare. It’s a nice looking rig none the less, add an Olive/Grey marble finish McMillan A2 stock and your getting pretty close.
I went to the Historical Arms Society? gun show in Chilliwack in the spring and a guy there had a scope mount for a C3A1 Unertl combo but was asking $1000 for it. I thought to myself, okay after I spend that, plus $4500 for a USO, then I still have to find an M83/M84 donor rifle and DBM etc etc.......
Last edited:
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
To address some questions in the thread:
C3A1 rifles:
that is a real C3A1 serial number block action (Canadian C3A1 actions have their own Serial number block). Probably failed QC, or was retained by PH for some other reason. Sold to Norman Clark in the PH liquidation sale.
They (Norman Clark) had around a half dozen to a dozen un-assembled C3A1 actions (retained for CF warranty purposes)- which may show up assembled in private collections in the next few years (I hear they were recently sold off).
The C3A1 is simply a Parker-Hale M86/M87 long action cut for the cross bar recoil stop of the Unertl designed mount.
According to surviving PH assemblers, the difference between an M86 & M87 is whether the barrel was fitted for a front sight (the M86 barrel was fitted for front sight).
Navy Arms sold several hundred stripped M86/m87 actions to Numrich who liquidated them via various auction sites over several years.
About 15 years ago, I purchased the last 18 M86 actions that Numrich had in stock, but I never took delivery as Numrich has an internal policy prohibiting selling firearms to non-US citizens. It's a long sad story without a happy ending...
except I managed to source a couple actions from private sellers in the US and eventually got them into my lock up.
I specified that the C3A1 is a "long action", because I have both a PH M86/87 "Short Action", and the standard 30-06 length "Long Action".
If you are adventurous, an M84 action can be cut to feed from a magazine. An M84 is the same M86/M87 action with a solid bottom.
There are a couple of other minor variations, specifically whether the action is cut for a conventional M98 bolt or the bolt without the anti-bind rib.
C3 rifles:
All? of the C3 rifles [approx. 375] (more technically "Parker-Hale 1200TX CDN") were traded back to PH in the early to mid 1990s, and re-sold as 1200TX and M82 rifles.
Last edited:
Speaking of parts bins...
Buddy of mine traded two five gallon buckets of G-pig parts he fished from the scrap bin, for a pretty nice restored WW2 truck.
The gun plumbers had orders to dump all their spares in the bin, he happened along and scrounged that lot.
So sad. They took hammers to all the spare Anshutz sight sets they had in their bins (Cadets target rifles) before they chucked them out.
God only knows what other stuff they lost in that particular purge. Circa 1997 or 98 IIRC.
Lee Enfield, that’s awesome information thanks a lot.
The M84 conversion is what I was pondering and actually hummed and hah’d over a 308 target rifle M84 that was in EE a couple of years ago. I missed it and have a WTB in there now. If I ever get one I have the stock waiting and just have to open up the action for a repeater and figure out a DBM set up. It would be sort of closer to an M85 but not exactly.....
The Badger ( if that’s what it is..) in yours look good.
I don’t know if Mclennon is still making barrels but I think he used to turn a C3A1 profile blank.
The M84 conversion is what I was pondering and actually hummed and hah’d over a 308 target rifle M84 that was in EE a couple of years ago. I missed it and have a WTB in there now. If I ever get one I have the stock waiting and just have to open up the action for a repeater and figure out a DBM set up. It would be sort of closer to an M85 but not exactly.....
The Badger ( if that’s what it is..) in yours look good.
I don’t know if Mclennon is still making barrels but I think he used to turn a C3A1 profile blank.
Attachments
Last edited:
Lee Enfield
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Republic of Alberta
My bottom metal is the CDI Mauser 98 short action.
http://www.cdiprecisiongunworks.com/
CDI also makes a magnum length M98 bottom metal...
Mystic Precision is their Canadian distributor...
http://www.cdiprecisiongunworks.com/
CDI also makes a magnum length M98 bottom metal...
Mystic Precision is their Canadian distributor...
Blastattack
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Winnipeg MB
I highly doubt it. However, any barrel maker can replicate the profile and any decent gunsmith can fit that barrel. There's nothing special about these guns, compared to any other guns when it comes to rebarrelling.
Original PH Barrels are around. Original la Coruna actions, PH bolts, stocks, ZF 69's etc. Only the pairs steel bases are a very rare bird.
I was a member of the 3R22Re Bisley Team. In the 80s we used what was called Swedish Mauser K17 7.62 Target Rifles.
I was a member of the 3R22Re Bisley Team. In the 80s we used what was called Swedish Mauser K17 7.62 Target Rifles.
Last edited:
angrysoldier
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- under your bed
C3's are still in service in small numbers. We dont sell small arms we smelt them. Our only issue is bi pod parts. Nice story though.To address some questions in the thread:
C3A1 rifles:
that is a real C3A1 serial number block action (Canadian C3A1 actions have their own Serial number block). Probably failed QC, or was retained by PH for some other reason. Sold to Norman Clark in the PH liquidation sale.
They (Norman Clark) had around a half dozen to a dozen un-assembled C3A1 actions (retained for CF warranty purposes)- which may show up assembled in private collections in the next few years (I hear they were recently sold off).
The C3A1 is simply a Parker-Hale M86/M87 long action cut for the cross bar recoil stop of the Unertl designed mount.
According to surviving PH assemblers, the difference between an M86 & M87 is whether the barrel was fitted for a front sight (the M86 barrel was fitted for front sight).
Navy Arms sold several hundred stripped M86/m87 actions to Numrich who liquidated them via various auction sites over several years.
About 15 years ago, I purchased the last 18 M86 actions that Numrich had in stock, but I never took delivery as Numrich has an internal policy prohibiting selling firearms to non-US citizens. It's a long sad story without a happy ending...
except I managed to source a couple actions from private sellers in the US and eventually got them into my lock up.
I specified that the C3A1 is a "long action", because I have both a PH M86/87 "Short Action", and the standard 30-06 length "Long Action".
If you are adventurous, an M84 action can be cut to feed from a magazine. An M84 is the same M86/M87 action with a solid bottom.
There are a couple of other minor variations, specifically whether the action is cut for a conventional M98 bolt or the bolt without the anti-bind rib.
C3 rifles:
All? of the C3 rifles [approx. 375] (more technically "Parker-Hale 1200TX CDN") were traded back to PH in the early to mid 1990s, and re-sold as 1200TX and M82 rifles.
