New Scope Recommendation

crowellsr

crowellsr

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Huntsville, Ontario
I'm looking at new scopes for a 6.5CM for benchrest shooting. The scopes I'm currently looking at are a Sightron S3 10-50x60, Nightforce Precision Benchrest 12-42x56and Burris XTR II 8-40x50. Any feedback on these scopes for long range shooting? Anything other scopes that should be considered that are comparable in price?
 
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First Rule of Scopes: You cannot save money on a rifle scope.

Second Rule of Scopes: Spend as much as possible.

I'm thinking you are best off with the Nightforce among the options you've presented.

The most important thing with optics in general is sharpness... you can forget all the noise about brightness and toughness and boil it down to the most subtle details at a distance. Mirage is such a vague feature that is sometimes hard to read if the optics are not great. Spotting bullet holes at distance is another good test.

I've seen mirage seem to move not smoothly like it is but kind of frame by frame in my Burris XTRii and I can only attribute it to weak sharpness.

I've found a theme change with scope marketing in recent years where there seems to be something of a cash grab as they push prices ever higher and that older scopes tend to have superior glass for the money compared to what you might think is a "decent new scope". I think they downgrade glass on mid priced scopes to frustrate you into dropping $3,000 to $4,000 to get something that's "acceptable".

Once you've gotten accustomed to really nice glass you will come to curse anything less.
 
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The best choice is the Sightron SIII 10-50 if you want a variable... the new'ish 45X if you want high mag and can deal with the mirage.

Sightron has incrementally tweaked the glass over the years and the SIII continues to punch way above its price point. The SIII family has also demonstrated one of the most stable erector systems in high mag target scopes.

For optics Sub $2k, the SIII is definitely a best buy.

PM or email if you want to discuss further... and yes, I continue to use them and we compete in F class at a provincial/state/national level.

If you are ok with just 30X and FFP, the new ED glassed Athlon Cronus BTR, and Ares ETR have excellent features that actually work well for target shooting. Then there are the Delta family of scopes with the 4.5-30 stryker HDs being my fave from the lineup. These will all be around and over the $2k range.

Jerry
 
NightForce (NF) and SWFA's will hold zero and track as they should, and are very durable.

I have 2 Sightrons III's, they hold zero and track as well. All though I had one that went south, sent in for repair and it is perfect again.

If you are trying to make 'weight' then I would lean to the Sightron, NF and SWFA are heavy, comparatively.

The 'glass' on the SWFA is good enough for the purpose of target shooting. As an example a friend uses NF scopes, going from NF to SWFA at the range I can not tell any discernible difference between the two. Twilight may be a different issue though.

Doesn't matter what the scope costs....it has to hold zero and track reliably, if not, it is not suited for target shooting or anything else (opinion).

For my purposes (muzzle to 1500 yards) the Sightron and SWFA work.

A fixed power SWFA will run you between $550-$750 to your doorstep. The Sightrons are bumping $2000 now all in. Look at 20% more for many NF's.
 
Mystic Precision said:
The best choice is the Sightron SIII 10-50 if you want a variable... the new'ish 45X if you want high mag and can deal with the mirage.

Sightron has incrementally tweaked the glass over the years and the SIII continues to punch way above its price point. The SIII family has also demonstrated one of the most stable erector systems in high mag target scopes.

For optics Sub $2k, the SIII is definitely a best buy.

PM or email if you want to discuss further... and yes, I continue to use them and we compete in F class at a provincial/state/national level.

If you are ok with just 30X and FFP, the new ED glassed Athlon Cronus BTR, and Ares ETR have excellent features that actually work well for target shooting. Then there are the Delta family of scopes with the 4.5-30 stryker HDs being my fave from the lineup. These will all be around and over the $2k range.

Jerry
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I agree Jerry, the Sightrons I have are excellent scopes for target shooting.
 
BCBRAD said:
NightForce (NF) and SWFA's will hold zero and track as they should, and are very durable.

I have 2 Sightrons III's, they hold zero and track as well. All though I had one that went south, sent in for repair and it is perfect again.

If you are trying to make 'weight' then I would lean to the Sightron, NF and SWFA are heavy, comparatively.

The 'glass' on the SWFA is good enough for the purpose of target shooting. As an example a friend uses NF scopes, going from NF to SWFA at the range I can not tell any discernible difference between the two. Twilight may be a different issue though.

Doesn't matter what the scope costs....it has to hold zero and track reliably, if not, it is not suited for target shooting or anything else (opinion).

For my purposes (muzzle to 1500 yards) the Sightron and SWFA work.

A fixed power SWFA will run you between $550-$750 to your doorstep. The Sightrons are bumping $2000 now all in. Look at 20% more for many NF's.
Click to expand...

I don't need to worry about weight as I am shooting for fun and not in competition.
 
First Rule of Scopes: You cannot save money on a rifle scope. - This is absolutely not true. It appears that spending more money has no effect on the quality of the purchased scope.

Second Rule of Scopes: Spend as much as possible. - you need to spend "enough" and after that money appears to be wasted

I'm thinking you are best off with the Nightforce among the options you've presented. - NF Benchrest are good scopes no doubt but I have issues with their ability to focus due to my eyes. Check this out before buying. I have no issues with the NSX series.

The most important thing with optics in general is sharpness... you can forget all the noise about brightness and toughness and boil it down to the most subtle details at a distance. Mirage is such a vague feature that is sometimes hard to read if the optics are not great. Spotting bullet holes at distance is another good test. - another statement that has issues. Mirage spotting is extremely important if not the most important. ED glass allows you to "see" through the mirage and that is a issue because mirage is a key component of reading wind direction and velocity

I've seen mirage seem to move not smoothly like it is but kind of frame by frame in my Burris XTRii and I can only attribute it to weak sharpness. -

I've found a theme change with scope marketing in recent years where there seems to be something of a cash grab as they push prices ever higher and that older scopes tend to have superior glass for the money compared to what you might think is a "decent new scope". I think they downgrade glass on mid priced scopes to frustrate you into dropping $3,000 to $4,000 to get something that's "acceptable". - there are basically 2 grades of glass - ED/HD glass which is extremely expensive to produce hence the increased scope cost than more standard coatings. ED type glass tends to be clearer and sharper however doesn't give you as much wind reading information.

Once you've gotten accustomed to really nice glass you will come to curse anything less. - Unless you really understand what a scope is meant to be used for and that is to hit targets at long range.



There seems to be a minimum price level for good scopes and that is the Sightron 10 x 50. I have used scopes from this level right up to S & B. I have had scopes fail in all price ranges and have come to realize that scopes are a consumable item and need to be sent in for rebuild from time to time. Check out the manufacturers service. NF is terrible and mostly will send stuff back unfixed unless they can hear something rattling. Sightron is excellent, March is very good but has to go to Japan. S & B can be a real pain.

You need to understand what you need from a scope. Do you want to see the target (ei: HD glass) or do you want to see the mirage with a reasonable view of the target (more standard glass). I have come to realize that the second option is the most important after chasing and spending a huge fortune on premium glass.
 
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OK Steve,

I'm not going to pick your response apart line by line, as you seem to be OK with crappy glass as long as it gets the basic job done for you... fine I'm happy for you.

But I am going to poke real hard on this point you are trying to make

ED glass allows you to "see" through the mirage and that is a issue because mirage is a key component of reading wind direction and velocity … OMG

You are not the first to make such a claim and it is so BS it's not even funny.

There is no HD glass that can see through the obstruction of humid air that exists between the shooter and target and selectively ignore something that is visible.

Shallow depth of field may make mirage hard to read but the image will be blurred out as a result of the mirage... in that case zoom out.

But the inability to read mirage never ever decreases as glass quality improves.

The scope does not choose to ignore certain airborn contaminants at will. If its there, the scope will see it.
 
BTW

Athlon Cronus BTR is on sale for half price at this link... even after US exchange its a whole lot cheaper than typical CDN prices.

ht tps://www.anarchyoutdoors.com/athlon-cronus-btr-scope-selection
 
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Maple57 said:
BTW

Athlon Cronus BTR is on sale for half price at this link... even after US exchange its a whole lot cheaper than typical CDN prices.

ht tps://www.anarchyoutdoors.com/athlon-cronus-btr-scope-selection

Only the 1-6 model is that price.
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I’d probably go sightron. It’s a pretty vanilla scope, but glass wise to me it was the best. I guess the right answer would be to look through all of them and let your eye be the judge. You might be surprised at what your eye likes compared to what’s popular. I’m sure like most of us, you’ll end up buying and selling a few before you find the right one. Used can be a nice option as well. More than half of mine have been used.
 
Maple

"But the inability to read mirage never ever decreases as glass quality improves. Obviously you don't have much long range shooting experience with the high end glass available on the market whereas I have bought, used and sold most of them.

Again, I stress to new glass users and I learned this the hard way from a good friend. What is it you want to see? Do you want to see the target clearly through the mirage or do you want to see the mirage and a reasonable view of the target. Please note that I am not talking about crappy low value glass found in most hunting brand scopes. Please reread where I said the glass has to be "enough" and that Sightron 10 x 50's appear to be the limit of "enough". Anything more appears to be a waste of money IMHO

The clearer ED glass has cost me a huge amount of points over the years in not picking up the subtle changing in the direction and velocity of the winds and taught me to value the ability in a scope to see the mirage over the clarity of a target face.

Big Robb also had a very good point. Try looking through the various scope to see which focus system works for you. I have issues with my eyes and certain models of certain brands do not work for me because I can't focus them well.

Most inexperienced people focus in on the clarity of the glass as the most important feature to value. I disagree totally.
 
Crowellsr

One of the reasons I came into your thread is I that I often see comments such as "the highest priced scopes are the best and spend as much as you can". I really feel this is a disservice to people who, like yourself, are asking for good advise. I probably could have bought a nice house for all the money I have spend on scopes chasing the holly grail. What I have found is once you reach a certain grade of lens and coatings the extra price don't give you much, if anything, of value.

I have had most of the high priced ($3,000 - 6,000) scope fail and need to be returned to the factory for rebuild. There doesn't appear to be a brand of scope or model that is materially better than the other. In fact, the higher cost scopes seem to fail faster but that is just my impression. I have approached a number of manufacturer's engineering staff about this without getting a satisfactory answer.

The issue of seeing the mirage is a debate between shooters what is the most important feature you should look for. it is easier for most inexperienced shooters to conclude that clarity is that most important. I understand that because I followed that line of thinking for many, many years myself until I really understood what I needed. It took me 10 of 1,000's of match rounds on target to see things differently.

There are a number of approx. price points for high end scopes. $1,700, 2,400, 3,400, 4,500, 5,000 and over 6,000. Once you get over the basic $1,700 range you really don't gain much. Certainly you don't gain strength of construction from my experience as the cost goes up!

Things I look for are weight, zero stop, reasonable glass coatings, service reliability and turret click resistance. All are important to me but the most important is lack of point of aim shift as you adjust the turrets. Price is not considered.
 
SteveB said:
Maple

"But the inability to read mirage never ever decreases as glass quality improves. Obviously you don't have much long range shooting experience with the high end glass available on the market whereas I have bought, used and sold most of them.
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Sorry Stevie, but you are wrong about just about everything... Including what scopes I've used over 40 years of long range shooting.

Interesting how you contradict yourself from one post to the next in response to realizing you should.
 
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To OP: I may have missed it but what sort of distances are you looking to shoot? You said “long range” but I find that is a subjective term and depends on everyone’s own interpretation. Benchrest in the strictest competition sense, or just shooting targets seated at a bench?

I’ve found that for shooting steel out to 700 yards on my 308 that a fixed 10x S&B PM2 suited my needs wonderfully and most important for me was that I had great glass and turret tracking over something that was say a 50x zoom. Now I’ve gone back to a Leupold Mark 4 because for the money (sub-$1000) find they’re good value comparatively speaking so something in the $2-3k range where your value per dollar drops off. That said, I do miss my S&B.
 
Seven Lakes said:
To OP: I may have missed it but what sort of distances are you looking to shoot? You said “long range” but I find that is a subjective term and depends on everyone’s own interpretation. Benchrest in the strictest competition sense, or just shooting targets seated at a bench?

I’ve found that for shooting steel out to 700 yards on my 308 that a fixed 10x S&B PM2 suited my needs wonderfully and most important for me was that I had great glass and turret tracking over something that was say a 50x zoom. Now I’ve gone back to a Leupold Mark 4 because for the money (sub-$1000) find they’re good value comparatively speaking so something in the $2-3k range where your value per dollar drops off. That said, I do miss my S&B.
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I will routinely shooting out to 500 yards from a bench position. Occasionally I will be able to stretch the distance further but not on a regular basis.
 
Personally, I would lean to something with less magnification than what your initial post suggests. On man sized steal at 700 I don’t have any problems with my 14x top end n the Mk4. But, I do have good vision and am young so YMMV.

If I was in the market for something “around” $2k right now, if you don’t mind used I think this PM2 4-16 is a great scope and is a good magnification range for my own personal taste at the sort of range you’re talking about. Great glass and turrets and a useable magnification range that’ll also be useable if you’re working inside of 500 as well. I’d throw him an offer around your $2k budget and see how things go.

https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/for...rris-Collection-for-CHEEEEP!!-OFFERS-ACCEPTED!!!
 
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