Is the type 81 worth it
- Thread starter jagermyster
- Start date
Even the Bushmaster ACR DMR have issues with larger than expected groups while being deemed a Designated Marksmen Rifle, I've seen them shoot 4-5" groups as well. I believe that is caused by the barrel not being seated properly after being removed and needs to some attention make sure everything is snug. Also heard that it has a hard time keeping zero after its removed/replaced. So even complicated designs that promise adaptability and marksmanship don't always translate to tight groups, but as stated above still combat effective.
Expectations for the Type 81 in my mind was that it looked somewhat like an AK47, was affordable and would send rounds down range and hit what you were aiming at while looking cool doing it. Not sure who was scratching their heads at a 5" group and becoming upset about it.
Expectations for the Type 81 in my mind was that it looked somewhat like an AK47, was affordable and would send rounds down range and hit what you were aiming at while looking cool doing it. Not sure who was scratching their heads at a 5" group and becoming upset about it.
I think somebody posted some work in the type 81 mod thread. And there is a facebook type 81/ vz58 page u can join where a member posted some nice pics of one he did aswell!
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1661873-Type-81-pictures-range-reports-and-modifications-thread/page25
Travis Bickle
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Upper Lower Middle Alberta
Lol exactly. And it does that very well on all points (especially the look cool part)
The same people that were scratching their heads I suspect are the same ones who shat all over SKS/CZ/AK rifles for being "minute of barn door"
There's a mountain of BS on the internet. Much of it is people with little knowledge, experience and very narrow minds parroting the opinions of other idiots and then it becomes dogma.
It's humorous to watch it develop
Holy fack this is laughable...but I'll bite....
You guys can inform your opinion on posts of guys drinking the comm. block koolaid and videos of guys shooting steel at "500 yards" all day long.
I've formed my opinion of shooting Service Conditions over a decade and seeing what good shooters, including myself, can do with these same rifles and ammo on a 4' screen on known distance ranges.
If they were that good with sh!t ass comm block ammo, you'd see more guys running them and actually winning matches at NSCC. You don't because the rifle and ammo combinations are not capable of it.
You guys can inform your opinion on posts of guys drinking the comm. block koolaid and videos of guys shooting steel at "500 yards" all day long.
I've formed my opinion of shooting Service Conditions over a decade and seeing what good shooters, including myself, can do with these same rifles and ammo on a 4' screen on known distance ranges.
If they were that good with sh!t ass comm block ammo, you'd see more guys running them and actually winning matches at NSCC. You don't because the rifle and ammo combinations are not capable of it.
Holy fack this is laughable...but I'll bite....
You guys can inform your opinion on posts of guys drinking the comm. block koolaid and videos of guys shooting steel at "500 yards" all day long.
I've formed my opinion of shooting Service Conditions over a decade and seeing what good shooters, including myself, can do with these same rifles and ammo on a 4' screen on known distance ranges.
If they were that good with sh!t ass comm block ammo, you'd see more guys running them and actually winning matches at NSCC. You don't because the rifle and ammo combinations are not capable of it.
I don't even have skin in the game here but come on. The guy is making hits and because it's not to your whatever standards of muh competition spec known range wind tunnel time paradox or whatever you need for it to count so you just discard it?
A team from Italy won a service rifle competition before the 1st world war with Carcanos, beating out many of the contemporaries rifle patterns of the day. Would you pick a Carcano over an Enfield just because it won some damn "service conditions" competition? Probably not - but the proof is in the pudding that they can shoot to win too - no different then these commbloc gats can, could, and I bet in a few situations have. Just because your own little eyes haven't peep'd it yet doesn't it mean it couldn't happen.
Take the blinders off buddy, there's a whole world of guns out there and some will surprise you.
Well, I own a Type 81 and enjoy it for what it is. I've used it out to 500m on a known distance range, and I've witnessed several others use other stuff like SKSs and VZs do the same.
I know what they are capable of and in this case, not. It isn't a question of having a hate on or being blind to what they can do.
But go ahead, call me a hater and think I'm the delusional one
I know what they are capable of and in this case, not. It isn't a question of having a hate on or being blind to what they can do.
But go ahead, call me a hater and think I'm the delusional one
SOoooooo you basically just denounced Rob from AK Operaters Union.... its official then, your a "delusional hater" lol your like the John Snow of Red rifles, "YOU KNOW NOTHING"
SOoooooo you basically just denounced Rob from AK Operaters Union.... its official then, your a "delusional hater" lol your like the John Snow of Red rifles, "YOU KNOW NOTHING"
I was thinking the same thing, Rob puts down 500 yard shots with TONS of 7.62x39 weapons and he's no slouch behind a rifle. If him doing it isn't good enough then I guess we'd need Jesus or someone to come down and prove it.
Oh well.
Holy fack this is laughable...but I'll bite....
You guys can inform your opinion on posts of guys drinking the comm. block koolaid and videos of guys shooting steel at "500 yards" all day long.
I've formed my opinion of shooting Service Conditions over a decade and seeing what good shooters, including myself, can do with these same rifles and ammo on a 4' screen on known distance ranges.
If they were that good with sh!t ass comm block ammo, you'd see more guys running them and actually winning matches at NSCC. You don't because the rifle and ammo combinations are not capable of it.
Not to come across as a hater, but the measure of a battlefield implement is not its performance in a service conditions controlled shoot.
It's man-sized hit performance on the 2 way range that armies care about.
Range competition is just to hone marksmanship skills, and no service rifle will outshoot a $400 bolt action savage with the same loads, all else being equal.
You opinion is valid, but this argument isnt a winning one.
I agree with your statement Claven2.
Service Conditions is shot on a nice, flat manicured lawn with known distance and set targets.
Ideal for seeing what the rifle and shooter can do with positional shooting in essentially ideal conditions.
Field and combat shooting is going to potentially be, and more than likely be, exponentially worse.
I use Service Conditions shooting as an example as it is directly linkable to this rifle, the positional shooting for the distances being shot, and the recording of actual group sizes.
This is going to come as a shock to some, and always is to those that shoot SR for the first time - just because you can get 4-5 Moa (4-5" inches) at 100m in a prone semi-supported position does not necessarily translate to roughly (4-5 X5 =) 20-25" at 500m.
There are environmental conditions like wind and thermal and velocity spreads and inconsistencies in the rifles performance that stack up.
While this stuff is pretty forgiving at closer ranges, they play a bigger factor in spreading out the MPI the further you go.
So while I dig the Type 81 and find it a blast to shoot, I'm realistic with the expectation of how well they shoot with the ammo on hand.
I don't care if I 'win anyone over' in my thinking - I'm not here to win any arguments; only adding my thoughts based on what I know to be true.
If someone is reading here or watching some video on youtube, or worse yet - going out and purchasing one - based on being led to believe these things will or are capable of consistently hitting a 'torso sized' (or whatever - 20"x20" let's say) plate at 500m with surplus ammo, they are in for disappointment.
Service Conditions is shot on a nice, flat manicured lawn with known distance and set targets.
Ideal for seeing what the rifle and shooter can do with positional shooting in essentially ideal conditions.
Field and combat shooting is going to potentially be, and more than likely be, exponentially worse.
I use Service Conditions shooting as an example as it is directly linkable to this rifle, the positional shooting for the distances being shot, and the recording of actual group sizes.
This is going to come as a shock to some, and always is to those that shoot SR for the first time - just because you can get 4-5 Moa (4-5" inches) at 100m in a prone semi-supported position does not necessarily translate to roughly (4-5 X5 =) 20-25" at 500m.
There are environmental conditions like wind and thermal and velocity spreads and inconsistencies in the rifles performance that stack up.
While this stuff is pretty forgiving at closer ranges, they play a bigger factor in spreading out the MPI the further you go.
So while I dig the Type 81 and find it a blast to shoot, I'm realistic with the expectation of how well they shoot with the ammo on hand.
I don't care if I 'win anyone over' in my thinking - I'm not here to win any arguments; only adding my thoughts based on what I know to be true.
If someone is reading here or watching some video on youtube, or worse yet - going out and purchasing one - based on being led to believe these things will or are capable of consistently hitting a 'torso sized' (or whatever - 20"x20" let's say) plate at 500m with surplus ammo, they are in for disappointment.
FWIW, back when we could have AKs, I never shot a normal variant (milled receiver heavy barelled .308 Valmets don't count here) that did better than 4 to 5 MOA.
Nevertheless, more armies have (and still do) issue the AK than any other rifle. There is a reason why. Reliability, ease of training, acceptable accuracy at realistic engagement distances, etc.
An AR 15 is a better rifle ins a well trained army with a reliable supply chain. That's not every army's reality, and certainly not in China.
Check EE, there is someone selling them for $20 each.
angrysoldier
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- under your bed
you can modify ak mags to work. I have a few I moded. they are tight but never fail.
