FW: Martini SMLE
- Thread starter cyclone
- Start date
- Location
- Southern Vancouver Island
That wee bugger looks dang good to me. 
There was one for sale at a gun show in Nanaimo a few years ago. I was very tempted but close examination revealed it to be put together from parts. There was some thought that these were Indian Police or some such origin but I think the specialty Enfield boards have pretty dismissed these as the work of Bubbas talented brother.....
Cottage Hill Bill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Pensacola, FL USA
The sight on that one is from a Greek M1903. The term Platypus for this type of mixmaster came from an Australian member on the British Militaria Forum who made one from a Martini and a Lithgow SMLE within the last ten years, so it is a new term for these. Strickly speaking a Platypus must have Lithgow components. 
I've also heard them called a SMLEtini. However, there is some scarce evidence of some legitimate ones being built but a bunch of different stories about where and when. One version is the one presented on the FW clip, OTC trainers. another version says Home Guard in WWII. Unless somebody finds a memo or letter or drawing from one of the factories we'll probably never know the truth. One thing is sure, .303 Martinis are great fun. I have a 20" barreled sporter that is one of my favorite hunting rifles.
I've also heard them called a SMLEtini. However, there is some scarce evidence of some legitimate ones being built but a bunch of different stories about where and when. One version is the one presented on the FW clip, OTC trainers. another version says Home Guard in WWII. Unless somebody finds a memo or letter or drawing from one of the factories we'll probably never know the truth. One thing is sure, .303 Martinis are great fun. I have a 20" barreled sporter that is one of my favorite hunting rifles.Not finding the story that this is a trainer very convincing. Most trainers are built to mimic the action of full sized weapons but with a smaller cartridge for cheapness and less recoil (22 Enfields and Mausers for example). There are a few instances of same calibre but lower power cartridges or same calibre but single shot (Schmidt Rueben "cadet" rifles). There are also instances of same outline but lower power and different action (Hakim and Czech air rifle trainers).
I can't think of any instances of same powerful cartridge in a different action which makes no sense form a training/ecomomy/logistics point of view.
Bradfield College (not Bradford as Ian says) is a British Public (i.e. Private School) founded in 1850 and located in Berkshire England. It still functions. While it did have an Officer Training corps (OTC) I cannot see that they would convert rifles https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/bradfield-college-otc/
Neither can I see why anyone would put a non British sight on as part of the conversion which would be easier with the original Enfield sight. The Enfield trainers and Line Throwing Rifle I have where the original Enfield back sight has been removed have the slots in the lower hand guard filled with small wood blocks.
The one that I saw was in a Duncan BC gun show maybe 10 years back. It looked convincing at first and the owner was convinced that it was Indian Police issue. I did not buy it at the time as I was not convinced of its authenticity and I could find no reference online to this being a legit conversion. I did track down the owner of the rifle who I remember lived further up Island (Qualicum? Courtenay). I viewed it more closely at a subsequent Nanaimo gun show and it was more obvious from the way the wood fitted and marks on the metal work that it was a home built. But it was quite nicely down and looked cool at a quick inspection.
So this is Bubba's more talented brother at work unless anbody can come up with some convincing evidence to the contrary.
I can't think of any instances of same powerful cartridge in a different action which makes no sense form a training/ecomomy/logistics point of view.
Bradfield College (not Bradford as Ian says) is a British Public (i.e. Private School) founded in 1850 and located in Berkshire England. It still functions. While it did have an Officer Training corps (OTC) I cannot see that they would convert rifles https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/bradfield-college-otc/
Neither can I see why anyone would put a non British sight on as part of the conversion which would be easier with the original Enfield sight. The Enfield trainers and Line Throwing Rifle I have where the original Enfield back sight has been removed have the slots in the lower hand guard filled with small wood blocks.
The one that I saw was in a Duncan BC gun show maybe 10 years back. It looked convincing at first and the owner was convinced that it was Indian Police issue. I did not buy it at the time as I was not convinced of its authenticity and I could find no reference online to this being a legit conversion. I did track down the owner of the rifle who I remember lived further up Island (Qualicum? Courtenay). I viewed it more closely at a subsequent Nanaimo gun show and it was more obvious from the way the wood fitted and marks on the metal work that it was a home built. But it was quite nicely down and looked cool at a quick inspection.
So this is Bubba's more talented brother at work unless anbody can come up with some convincing evidence to the contrary.
The butt stampings certainly appear authentic - and were probably on a Martini Enfield rifle used by the school.
Are Martini barrel threads 1-14 like a SMLE? If so, retrofitting a SMLE barrel would be quite straightforward, if one wanted to make such a hybrid. SMLE forends are too valuable to cut up these days, though.
Are Martini barrel threads 1-14 like a SMLE? If so, retrofitting a SMLE barrel would be quite straightforward, if one wanted to make such a hybrid. SMLE forends are too valuable to cut up these days, though.
Cottage Hill Bill
CGN Regular
- Location
- Pensacola, FL USA
Yes Martini and SMLE are the same. You have to remove about 1 thread from the SMLE barrel and cut the second extractor notch. The harder part is replacing the breechface, reducing the firing pin hole and making a new firing pin.
'war time proof marks were marked 2.2 tons ?Could be before that time.'
Huh? Civilian proof marks from Birmingham and London, put there so that a firearm can be sold to the public in UK, are FAR higher than 2.2 tons. Try 18. That figure of 2.22", written as .303 2.22", refers to the length of the case in inches.
This thing is a clever frawk.
Huh? Civilian proof marks from Birmingham and London, put there so that a firearm can be sold to the public in UK, are FAR higher than 2.2 tons. Try 18. That figure of 2.22", written as .303 2.22", refers to the length of the case in inches.
This thing is a clever frawk.
Here's my attempt.
It started out with a Westley-Richards action. This is different from the usual large Martinis in that all the inner workings come out of the bottom as a unit, just like the small Cadets.
The barrel was a new South African SMLE one. It was very easy to fit up, said my smith. The barrel still has some of the plastic dip that was used as a preservative, around it.
Another winter works project.
It started out with a Westley-Richards action. This is different from the usual large Martinis in that all the inner workings come out of the bottom as a unit, just like the small Cadets.
The barrel was a new South African SMLE one. It was very easy to fit up, said my smith. The barrel still has some of the plastic dip that was used as a preservative, around it.
Another winter works project.
Almost certainly assembled by the British gun trade for use by the Volunteer Training Corps - VTC - in the Great War. They were not allowed to buy rifles of the service pattern, by government regulation, however it could be in the service caliber.
The SMLE forward at least allows the fitting of a 1907 or 1903 bayonet.
I have seen a number of advertisements for these rifles in contemporary magazines and other publications.Will try and dig one out and post.
Regards
AlanD
Sydney
The SMLE forward at least allows the fitting of a 1907 or 1903 bayonet.
I have seen a number of advertisements for these rifles in contemporary magazines and other publications.Will try and dig one out and post.
Regards
AlanD
Sydney
Had a look at the Shotgun News project book, and the article featuring assembling a rifle of this type.
Author used a .450 action with reduced diameter firing pin and altered extractor, along with a SMLE barrel (which required only minor adjustments to work on the Martini action). He did add a recoil lug to the bottom of the barrel, necessary to keep the forend in place if the rifle is to be actually fired.
Very straightforward project. The resulting rifle looks remarkably like the FW rifle.
I wonder why whoever made up the subject rifle omitted the rear sight guard.
Author used a .450 action with reduced diameter firing pin and altered extractor, along with a SMLE barrel (which required only minor adjustments to work on the Martini action). He did add a recoil lug to the bottom of the barrel, necessary to keep the forend in place if the rifle is to be actually fired.
Very straightforward project. The resulting rifle looks remarkably like the FW rifle.
I wonder why whoever made up the subject rifle omitted the rear sight guard.
