US NGSW 6.8mm by Cobalt and MARS

[greentips]

The US DoD seems to be in a rash of obsession in penetrating level 4 armour these days. The SAW's replacement and potentially M4 replacement were merged together. Some of these weapons were shown, like the SIG MPX.

To push 135gr 6.8mm at 3200 fps out of a 16" barrel, we are going back to "battle rifle sized" weapons.

Some pictures of Cobalt and MARS creation, even though we know Textron (or maybe SIG ) will probably win anyways if the program is not going to die.

 

[nowarningshot]

What was that, 270 wsm? Pushing a 135 to 3200, is beyond 270 win, so they are definitely not talking about 6.8 spc. If they are going to full AR10 size, why not just use 308?

 

[Gunnerlove]

Because speed kills. Hell this has got me looking at .243 WSSM.

 

[Gunnerlove]

Because speed kills. Hell this has got me looking at .243 WSSM.

 

[rugbydave]

Because speed kills. Hell this has got me looking at .243 WSSM.

Wouldn't barrel life be terrible (with a .243 WSSM)? Even this new round, pushing 135s at 3200 out of a 16" barrel, you can't get that kinda speed out of a 130 in a 26" 6.5 Creed so this has got to be closest to something like a 6.5 PRC/SAUM, no?

 

[nowarningshot]

Since its a .277/6.8 i am thinking really short/fatty.....that velocity is 270 weatherby or faster. Speed needs powder, thats a big case....

 

[F22_RaptoR]

Since its a .277/6.8 i am thinking really short/fatty.....that velocity is 270 weatherby or faster. Speed needs powder, thats a big case....

You can see how fat the 6.8 case is at the top (right side in the top picture)... I don't know for sure but it looks like 5.56 / 7.62 Nato / new 6.8 round

I know barrel life will be an issue, they may be using variable twist rate rifling or cold hammer forging and extra thick chrome lining to protect the bore, but I can't see this having more barrel life than a regular M4 carbine (7000-ish rounds)

They really seem to be pushing this new rifle, so I'm curious to see how long it will take to get bugs worked out, and how heavy the new rifles will end up being.

 

[cr5]

Why would they care about barrel life? Tax payers buy them new barrels.
These days it seems like all anyone cares about it performance, practicality and durability are lower on the list.

 

[Mystic Precision]

What is with the "spring" around the barrel?

Is the US govt about to change operating pressures in small arms?

Do they have new powders we have never seen?

Are these rifles simply going to be 3D printed before going on operations and then thrown away when done?

Are they giving up on full auto rifles?

I just don't see how they can reach those levels of performance using current tech AND trying to fit in standard sized mags.

Jerry

 

[greentips]

I don't think they care about barrel life "theoretically" because in the program barrel is seen as a consumable item, but I am not sure how many people will trust the big army can really logistically make barrel as consumpable as magazines.

This is SIG's entry with their own version of the 6.8 ammo. It is basically a modified 308 MCX that they designed for the M110A1 project. The base of the cartridge is made of steel to operate at higher pressure.

The whole thing is more like a GPMG replacement, other than a M4 and SAW replacement. Personally I am not quite sure the 600m L4 armour penetration is achievable in a weapon that is light enough and carrying enough ammo for the type of tactics we use. And really, I don't think the Russian will be dismounting at 600m either.

 

[greentips]

What is with the "spring" around the barrel?

It is a system where the barrel and bolt move rearwards together to mitigate the obvious pretty big recoil of that fat cartridge.

 

[Classic Green .223]

If it was me and cost was a factor, wouldn’t regular 7.62x51 AP do the job ?

 

[r34skyline]

Didn't sig and general dynamics get this contract?

 

[Mystic Precision]

It is a system where the barrel and bolt move rearwards together to mitigate the obvious pretty big recoil of that fat cartridge.

Thanks for the info.... Given how specific the needs are for armour engagement at distance, wouldn't a stand alone upper serve more utility?

Or is this platform going to replace the typical DMR and bolt rifle (308 based)?

If the goal is to have a specialist in a squad that can engage hardened targets at distance with faster rates of fire (Dragunov on steroids), very good idea.

Jerry

 

[tjhaile]

This looks like another stupid US Army small arms project that will go nowhere, just like the SPIW, 6mm SAW, ACR, OICW, XM8, XM25, etc.

Yes, it can provide superior armour penetration at longer ranges than 7.62x51mm or 5.56x45mm. The question is whether the performance gains are worth the trade-offs:

1. Will soldiers receive better training to take advantage of the new rifle's long-range capabilities?
2. Fielding 6.8mm weapons will just spur further innovation in armour, thus quickly nullifying its advantage.

 

[greentips]

Didn't sig and general dynamics get this contract?

I think they started out with SAW replacement project that had down selected to Textron, GD, SIG and other one that I can't remember. Then they make it bigger by combining SAW and M4 replacement, and open up to others. The DoD gives everyone a 6.8 bullet of government design and let people make/design whatever cartridge out of it to get that 3200 ft/p'sih velocity out of a 16" bbl.

 

[TV-PressPass]

2. Fielding 6.8mm weapons will just spur further innovation in armour, thus quickly nullifying its advantage.

"Orders from up top Vasily: now you wear two plates."

 

[Mystic Precision]

This looks like another stupid US Army small arms project that will go nowhere, just like the SPIW, 6mm SAW, ACR, OICW, XM8, XM25, etc.

Yes, it can provide superior armour penetration at longer ranges than 7.62x51mm or 5.56x45mm. The question is whether the performance gains are worth the trade-offs:

1. Will soldiers receive better training to take advantage of the new rifle's long-range capabilities?
2. Fielding 6.8mm weapons will just spur further innovation in armour, thus quickly nullifying its advantage.

You could also look upon this project as a response to current armor that has made legacy set ups obsolete... maybe we are catching up to the next gen armor we will face?

If I am correct that this platform will the replace the current 308 semi platforms, then we are simply offering more hitting power for each trigger pull. Whether the current training is good or not, I cannot say.

Whatever happened to the 308AR that Rem offered a while back?

The tit for tat evolution of gear is going to continue. The only hope I have is the mega dollars spent actually offer our troops something that will help them in the field... and be successful.

And if that is the case... then money well spent.

Jerry

 

[cyclone]

The US DoD seems to be in a rash of obsession in penetrating level 4 armour these days. The SAW's replacement and potentially M4 replacement were merged together....

Does that mean the SAW's replacement will be along the lines of an IAR?....

 

[rugbydave]

I don't think they care about barrel life "theoretically" because in the program barrel is seen as a consumable item, but I am not sure how many people will trust the big army can really logistically make barrel as consumpable as magazines.

This is SIG's entry with their own version of the 6.8 ammo. It is basically a modified 308 MCX that they designed for the M110A1 project. The base of the cartridge is made of steel to operate at higher pressure.

The whole thing is more like a GPMG replacement, other than a M4 and SAW replacement. Personally I am not quite sure the 600m L4 armour penetration is achievable in a weapon that is light enough and carrying enough ammo for the type of tactics we use. And really, I don't think the Russian will be dismounting at 600m either.

View attachment 301050

I didn't mean barrel life in the sense that they couldn't incur/afford the cost of replacing barrels but more that it seemed to me that it would be a pain to have to have the rifles go back for what I assume is depot level maintenance (for barrel swaps) so frequently.