New Ladder test - More hope, maybe an end.

bearhunter said:
KT, it sounds like you've got a handle on things and it slipped my mind that you were shooting 300Win Mag, not 300 Weatherby Mag. My bad. The 300 Weatherby Mag rifles do come with 1-12 twist rates.

I like the way you're approaching this issue and agree that pressure point may be part or all of your problem.

I've tagged this for interest as a Vanguard S2, chambered in 270 Winchester just came to me with similar issues.
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I've got a .270 and a 25/06 in my rack, a 300WM I did for a buddy , all three I put boyd's stocks on, and all three shoot, apple to oranges I know.

Maybe the heavy projectiles are just too much for that particular pressure point to deal with.
 
There seems to be too much left-right movement. It would be fair to assume the same amount of random up-down. That would mask the usefulness of a ladder test.

Is the rifle bedded? If not, accuracy is questionable.
 
Ganderite said:
There seems to be too much left-right movement. It would be fair to assume the same amount of random up-down. That would mask the usefulness of a ladder test.

Is the rifle bedded? If not, accuracy is questionable.
Click to expand...

First thing I did was bed it, the first rifle as well , but half way through testing on that one.
 
bearhunter said:
KT, it sounds like you've got a handle on things and it slipped my mind that you were shooting 300Win Mag, not 300 Weatherby Mag. My bad. The 300 Weatherby Mag rifles do come with 1-12 twist rates.

I like the way you're approaching this issue and agree that pressure point may be part or all of your problem.

I've tagged this for interest as a Vanguard S2, chambered in 270 Winchester just came to me with similar issues.
Click to expand...

Pressure point will now be a non-issue , see what transpires...



I have a few other Vanguard stocks if I do want to go back.
 
I know some folks curl up their noses at this but are you using magnum primers with those relatively slow powders?

Inconsistent ignition of the propellant could be contributing to varying velocities.
 
bearhunter said:
I know some folks curl up their noses at this but are you using magnum primers with those relatively slow powders?

Inconsistent ignition of the propellant could be contributing to varying velocities.
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You betcha. :)

Here is the details of what I am using if it didn't mention it or folks didn't read the other thread.

So far on THIS rifle..........

Hornady new brass, now I'm into 2nd firings.
215 Primers
H1000
212 ELD - X and LRAB.
COAL of 3.500" , still fits internal magazine.

This currently rifle will now be bedded , barrel floated , actions screws torqued as per Weatherby specs.

I'm tempted to go buy a box of 150 or 165gr just for ####s and giggles and see what happens.

I'm starting to think that , and I don't know this for sure at any level, is that the heavier bullets may create a much greater vibration/frequency in the barrel thus effecting how the pressure point works with said projectiles, but, I could be talking out my ass here.
 
Barrel harmonics play a huge role in accuracy. I have seen some barrels that just won't settle down with heavy and long for caliber bullets. In fact, I recently pulled the 1-7 twist Varmint barrel from a 223 rem because it just wouldn't shoot the bullets I wanted it to. It would shoot lighter bullets extremely well, so it's going onto a different action. What is frustrating is this barrel was ordered along with two others from the same maker and the other two barrels shoot everything well, other than the lighter bullets below 67 grains, which appear to be over stabilized.

I know Remington primers can be hit and miss but one thing that can be depended on is that they are hot.

It's a toss up, some barrels just behave extremely well and the odd one just won't settle down. Even custom built barrels from well known makers can give trouble. Two in a row, from the same manufacturer is unusual.

In an assessment between the Tikka T3 and the Vanguard S2 done a few years back, the S2 got the nod for being the better of the two. Both rifles, IMHO are fantastic for their price range. I've never had a T3 that didn't shoot like a lazer. Other than the recent rifle that just came in, the same can be said for the Vanguard but not quite as consistently accurate.
 
bearhunter said:
Barrel harmonics play a huge role in accuracy. I have seen some barrels that just won't settle down with heavy and long for caliber bullets. In fact, I recently pulled the 1-7 twist Varmint barrel from a 223 rem because it just wouldn't shoot the bullets I wanted it to. It would shoot lighter bullets extremely well, so it's going onto a different action. What is frustrating is this barrel was ordered along with two others from the same maker and the other two barrels shoot everything well, other than the lighter bullets below 67 grains, which appear to be over stabilized.

I know Remington primers can be hit and miss but one thing that can be depended on is that they are hot.

It's a toss up, some barrels just behave extremely well and the odd one just won't settle down. Even custom built barrels from well known makers can give trouble. Two in a row, from the same manufacturer is unusual.

In an assessment between the Tikka T3 and the Vanguard S2 done a few years back, the S2 got the nod for being the better of the two. Both rifles, IMHO are fantastic for their price range. I've never had a T3 that didn't shoot like a lazer. Other than the recent rifle that just came in, the same can be said for the Vanguard but not quite as consistently accurate.
Click to expand...

If this stock and bedding work changes things then an easy check will be to switch stocks with the other Vanguard or even try it on one of my others with confirmed loads.
 
This mornings results...

212's



Velocities...

71 - 2633
71.5 - 2619
72 - 2640
72.5 - 2713
73 - 2638
73.5 - 2606
74 - 2673
74.5 - 2638
75 - 2739
75.5 - 2751
76 - 2787
76.5 - 2770
77 - 2807
77.5 - 2821
78 - 2848
78.5 - 2861


Some 180 Game Kings to see...



Velocities...

77.5 - 2875
78 - 2916
78.5 - 2994
79 - 2993
79.5 - 2969
80 - 2969
80.5 - 3002
81 - 3005

***The left 80.5 should be 81

Factory Hornady 150's ammo at same distance...





The Game Kings were despicable , the ELD's well, I may be able to work them.

I am glad that the bedding/floating didn't adversely effect the rifle.
 
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bearhunter said:
IMHO, your rifle wants shorter bullets and maybe lighter as well.
Click to expand...

That is how it is shaping up, I did however think the game kings would of been better than what they did.

Just not exactly what I wanted either of these two rifles to do.

I will try a few loads in the 76+ grain with the 212's.

I will also try my old reliable powder for accuracy(H4350) , then if I can't make it work , I'll drop weights.

I have some interbonds enroute also , just kind of not the path as wanted to go being this light.
 
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Can't find info on Vanguard twist rates in any caliber. What is your twist rate? If is is slow for a 30 caliber of that weight..............
 
Today's results which pretty much confirm that the rifle don't much care for the long heavies.

There could be some hope in the 76.5 area but that is a very small window , I may peruse it.

Velocities made more sense but it does look like once you get into compressed loads there is no gain.

The H4350 showed no accuracy potential but the velocities with more free space in the case were way more relative to charge weights.

The results.................

*** I did adjust scope after the 76gr load to stay centered on paper.





H4350...



 
I think I've got one I can use.

1 , 2 and 3 of the first charge on a cold barrel , first group of the day.Looks like the rifle likes it cold, this is good.

I did let the barrel cool between shots and groups but that initial three finally gives me some confidence.They did move a bit after but I feel it is acceptable.

Velocities

1 - 2799
2 - 2817
3 - 2796
4 - 2718
5 - 2833

av. 2792

How say you?




 
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