The only thing that will ROAST your new barrel is RAPID FIRING and and overheating the barrel and eating out the throat - with Normal shooting you will prob never shoot it enough to WEAR it out - jmo RJ
223, 223 Ai, 22-250 or 22 creedmoor??
- Thread starter Mike112288
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The only thing that will ROAST your new barrel is RAPID FIRING and and overheating the barrel and eating out the throat - with Normal shooting you will prob never shoot it enough to WEAR it out - jmo RJ
Mystic Precision
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Exactly... the 22CM can be loaded to very high pressure and heat levels... bullets go super fast, barrels wear super fast.
I have loaded to moderate pressures and speed... I treat it like a rental and I just got on the podium with a barrel having 1000rds fired. For this level of performance, I would be thrilled if I got to 1500rds... will update once I kill this barrel.
Like any 'magnum', expecting high performance and long bore life is really wishful thinking. Enjoy it for what it is and get another barrel ready when it needs to get changed.
Chasing a 408CT out to 1450yds with an itty bitty 22cal is a TON of fun. We giggled that my 22CM was 1/4 the size, bullet weight, powder charge.. yet, putting lead on the same targets way out there. WRT to cost... well, let's just say the 22CM is a wee bit cheaper to shoot vs a 408CT.
22CM, 30-06, 408CT.... alot of fun in a very small package.
Jerry
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I was speaking with some of the American shooters at Meaford on the weekend and they told me they are hitting 3100 FPS with 75 grainers out of a 223. That's some serious speed for a 223 with heavies.
The powder is IMR 8208 XBR with BR4 primers.
I got the local gun shop to order some, so I'll give it a try soon enough.
Note: They were not competing in PRS with this load, they used it while training. They were running mild 6mms during the match.
The powder is IMR 8208 XBR with BR4 primers.
I got the local gun shop to order some, so I'll give it a try soon enough.
Note: They were not competing in PRS with this load, they used it while training. They were running mild 6mms during the match.
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Mystic Precision
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- Summerland, BC
The "what" is pressure... and bucket loads of it. From the hodgdon.com reloading site... 223, 75gr bullet, IMR8208 24" barrel. max load is 22.7gr 2804fps 53,900psi
The fastest speed listed was with H4895 at 2900fps... I assume it never caught on because you couldn't stuff anymore powder into the case.... so no special sauce.
Be fun to run what pressure they would be running at 3100fps.. anyone with quickload crunch some numbers?
Sooner or later, rifles are going to go pop.... I have already seen some failures but they were "small" but the reason for the failures was pressure. Top shooters are hammering their bolts open between shots... in a custom action, that has gotta be hot.
Right now, too many shooters are teaching and/or learning things that are downright dangerous but custom stuff shields the real pressures signs so... the laws of physics get defeated.
But eventually, even that fails.... just ask the IPSC major shooters grenading their super sized 1911's in years past.
Jerry
Finding a consistent velocity node trumps hot rodding a cartridge every time. Very minimal ballistic gain, with a dramatic decrease in barrel life and issues with pressure (brass life, reliability in the rain, etc). I don't understand why some people want to push it to the limit.
I'll take the more consistent velocities over the very marginal ballistic gain every single time.
If I was to do a .22, it would be a .22 BR/BRA shooting the 88 ELDM's at a reasonable velocity. Really efficient case design, and good ballistics when paired up with the 88 ELDM's. That combination seems to make the most sense to me. I may do that with the wife's gun when she burns out her 6BRA barrel. She likes zero recoil in rifles.
I'll take the more consistent velocities over the very marginal ballistic gain every single time.
If I was to do a .22, it would be a .22 BR/BRA shooting the 88 ELDM's at a reasonable velocity. Really efficient case design, and good ballistics when paired up with the 88 ELDM's. That combination seems to make the most sense to me. I may do that with the wife's gun when she burns out her 6BRA barrel. She likes zero recoil in rifles.
Push feed actions handle the BR cases just fine. Just use the right magazine setup.
Plenty are shooting BR type cartridges out of push feed actions with 100% success. My wifes LP Fuzion in 6BRA seems to feed the BR cartridges every bit as good as my CRF Mausingfield in 6BRA.
You are not going to hit 3100 with standard throats BTW. It would be interesting to know if the book Jerry is referencing indicates the OAL, but I assume it's around 2.25".
Bullets are being seated close to 2.6" OAL to increase case volume enough to get that kind of speed.
Myself, I'm not interested in actually running volumes of 223 ammo at 3100, but if I can hit 3100 without destroying cases (as they claim), then backing off the powder charge to 3000 should be fairly easy on cases.
The throat on the rifle I will test it on jams with 75 grain ELDs around 2.540" so not quite 2.6".... yet.
It will be an interesting experiment to see if this is fact or fiction.
Certainly accuracy will be a primary factor in determining acceptance as Varget has been the long standing front runner for me.
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Summerland, BC
Good luck with your test and keep us in the loop.
Quick search through a couple of reloading manuals.... about the only listing for 75gr at 3100fps would be the 22-250 at standard pressures.
But manuals are a few years old so....
Jerry
PS... a little surprised someone likely competing in Tactical (?) division would admit to breaking the speed cap.
Quick search through a couple of reloading manuals.... about the only listing for 75gr at 3100fps would be the 22-250 at standard pressures.
But manuals are a few years old so....
Jerry
PS... a little surprised someone likely competing in Tactical (?) division would admit to breaking the speed cap.
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Yeah standard pressure.. sounds to me like a wiser choice to build on a larger casing like 22-250 of you want to push 75+ grainers above 3000 FPS. Making less and less sense to me to build a 223 and bring pressure so high just to barely reach that number. Why spike the pressure so high. Just run it normal then or build a 22-250 or 22 br or 22 creedmoor or..or... lol
I didn't say I would attempt to use a 3100 FPS load for a PRS match in Tactical division... I said that if the 8208 powder can hit 3100, that I would dial it back to 3,000 FPS with more moderate pressures... and possibly use that for PRS.
If for some reason I actually hit and like the 3100 FPS 223 load, (which is unlikely) I would simply register as an open division shooter.
My new rifle has a 1:7 twist barrel and suspect that accuracy will degrade if I push them too fast. I'd bet a 1:8 would be more accurate at 3000-3100 FPS with 75s.
I do have another rifle with a 1:8 twist Hart that I could compare for accuracy, when the time comes.
BTW, I get the feeling that some of you guys don't understand how seating the bullets long reduces chamber pressures. By seating to 2.540" OAL instead of 2.25", I'm increasing the case volume by an area of 0.29" x .224 Dia... that's a considerable change over reloading manual values.
The seating depth will grow over time as the throat erodes, so pressures will gradually reduce the more I shoot it.
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Mystic Precision
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
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- Summerland, BC
Was one of the first FTR shooters to hot rod the 223 way back when.... fully understand how long throats and wildcatting can work.
Good luck with your experiment... be interesting to see what quickloads suggests
Jerry
Good luck with your experiment... be interesting to see what quickloads suggests
Jerry
I too have Accurate Mags for 223, but I modified them to feed a full 2.6" OAL.
Remove the lip in the front of the insert with a Dremel tool or file, which you probably already did, if you're getting 2.5"
Further length can be obtained by filling the void between the ribs at the back of the mag inserts with JB weld. After that cures, you can mill away all or most of the inboard rib.
To mill the back rib, I just chucked a 1/4" end mill in my drill press and clamped a board as a guide to control the depth of cut. Easy peasey.
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Hmm ! WoW ! 3100 fps with a std 223 rem and a 75 gr bullet - Barrel lenght ? Coal ? Pressure ? Powder ? RJ
Well, the quickload program at your OAL of 2.540 Maple57, says it will just be shy of 3,100 and still be within the pressure limits, but it's just a program, Heaven only knows what the chronograph will actually read!
Cat
Cat
Well, the quickload program at your OAL of 2.540 Maple57, says it will just be shy of 3,100 and still be within the pressure limits, but it's just a program, Heaven only knows what the chronograph will actually read!
Cat
Cat What combo of Powder - Primer was used - Load grs ? in the Quickload - Thxs RJ
IMR8208XBR as Maple57 stated, don't have a primer code, but used a 30" barrel reference
24.6 is 63,478 PSI,, 31103 FPS
24.5 runs 62,663 PSI and 3,093 FPS
24.4 13 at 61,858 and 3,082 FPS
HOWEVER, as i stated, this is a computer program, and in real life with individual barrels and primers, cases, etc, only a chronograph and strain gauge will tell the truth.
We have found some inconsistencies in Quickload before , some of them very disconcerting if a person was too use it as a load data source which it should not be.
Cat
