A pistol calibre AR... in 7.62x25!

#1bcshooter said:
You are right the barrel isn't prohibited the firearm is


LESS THAN 18″/457mm BARREL LENGTH RULES:

CC s. 84(1) “prohibited firearm” (d): If the barrel has been SHORTENED to less than 18″/457mm, after leaving the factory, “by sawing, cutting or ANY other alteration or modification” that forces the firearm into the “prohibited firearm” class.
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If the original barrel extension have to be removed and original chamber was cut off, it will render it back into a barrel blank. Than reamed the barrel for a new chamber for a completely different cartridge and re-installed the barrel extension would be considered as manufacturing not just shortened.
 
B said:
Look at all the keeners in the thread FFS. Probably the same kind of guys that rushed out and pinned their 10+ round 10/22 mags.

The rifle is very cool, I'd love something like it.
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Cudos to you sir,well said !

Nice job OP,very original !
 
Bfranklin said:
If I purchase a 16" AR barrel it is not illegal to cut it down to whatever length I prefer. Note that I have no reason to do so considering that it is much easier to just purchase the desired length.

A barrel is not a regulated object until it is attached to a firearm.
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Sorry but you are wrong .
But enough of this and back to the caliber conversion
 
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hbean said:
If the original barrel extension have to be removed and original chamber was cut off, it will render it back into a barrel blank. Than reamed the barrel for a new chamber for a completely different cartridge and re-installed the barrel extension would be considered as manufacturing not just shortened.
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Yes I would agree to that scenario
 
tiriaq said:
The only barrels specifically prohibited in Canada are pistol barrels less than 105mm in length. Apart from the under 105mm pistol barrel, there are no prohibited barrels.

OP - very interesting project, particularly as you chose to go with a gas operated design, rather than a blowback. I cannot help but think, though, that using corrosive surplus ammunition would require lots of cleaning. I note that you are using commercial ammunition.
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is the actual barrel prohibited? or is a firearm with said barrel installed prohib?
 
jg007 said:
is the actual barrel prohibited? or is a firearm with said barrel installed prohib?
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The actual barrel is prohibited. That's how you can take a gun out of prohibited class by replacing the barrel.

As a side note this creates an interesting issue where the barrel is measured to the bolt face when it's installed but when it's removed it's measured on its own according to the lab and this results in very different outcomes.

None of this is relevant to the rifle being discussed here, though :)
 
m39a2 said:
Why did you go for gas operation rather than direct blow back like the 9mm versions/conversions?

Scott
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Apparently the early 9mm blowback ARs were hard on fire control groups and 7.62x25 is pretty hot so I felt like gas operation was the way to go. And other than the barrel, tiny gas tube and opening up the 5.56 bolt face, evertything is just a bog standard AR.


DaveMachine said:
Can you make some sort of insert for the magazine? It would get around having to source tt33 or non-existent np762 mags. Iirc, a company in the US did this for 9mm to feed in regular are mags.
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I want to try an endomag style insert for 7.62x25. Gonna be prototyping in my basment and see how it goes. Might buy the endomag to see if I can modify it to work. If not, I'll get a mag block 3d printed for the np762 mags.

If anyone is reading this that owns a 3d printer, let me know some of the ins and outs of what you would need to produce something like either of those two options.
 
hbean said:
If the original barrel extension have to be removed and original chamber was cut off, it will render it back into a barrel blank. Than reamed the barrel for a new chamber for a completely different cartridge and re-installed the barrel extension would be considered as manufacturing not just shortened.
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That theoretical situation would be what I might do as well to test things before spending a bunch of money on a barrel blank. Theoretically.
 
KotKotofeich said:
The actual barrel is prohibited. That's how you can take a gun out of prohibited class by replacing the barrel.

As a side note this creates an interesting issue where the barrel is measured to the bolt face when it's installed but when it's removed it's measured on its own according to the lab and this results in very different outcomes.

None of this is relevant to the rifle being discussed here, though :)
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so ownership of the barrel itself is prohibited? i understand that a firearm + short barrel = prohibited, but is the short barrel itself prohib (if so do you have a reference by any chance)

jg
 
jg007 said:
so ownership of the barrel itself is prohibited? i understand that a firearm + short barrel = prohibited, but is the short barrel itself prohib (if so do you have a reference by any chance)

jg
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My understanding is the barrel is prohibited, on or off of firearm. The thing I am wondering is, if a barrel is cut shorter it becomes two barrels. Is the short offcut piece prohibited by a he letter of the law?
 
Under the Criminal Code in the section defining prohibited devices, pistol barrels under 106 mm is considered a prohibited device, rifle barrels are not mentioned.

Canadian Criminal Code said:
"prohibited device"
"prohibited device" means
(a) any component or part of a weapon, or any accessory for use with a weapon, that is prescribed to be a prohibited device,
(b) a handgun barrel that is equal to or less than 105 mm in length, but does not include any such handgun barrel that is prescribed, where the handgun barrel is for use in international sporting competitions governed by the rules of the International Shooting Union,
(c) a device or contrivance designed or intended to muffle or stop the sound or report of a firearm,
(d) a cartridge magazine that is prescribed to be a prohibited device, or
(e) a replica firearm;
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call2arms said:
My understanding is the barrel is prohibited, on or off of firearm. The thing I am wondering is, if a barrel is cut shorter it becomes two barrels. Is the short offcut piece prohibited by a he letter of the law?
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The cut-off is just that - a cut-off. Make it into a pistol barrel and you are in trouble.

jg007 said:
so ownership of the barrel itself is prohibited? i understand that a firearm + short barrel = prohibited, but is the short barrel itself prohib (if so do you have a reference by any chance)

jg
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hbean beat me to quoting the law. Yes, it's ownership of the actual barrel that's prohibited. 12.6 and 12.7 grandfathered folks are kind of in legal limbo in the sense that they get to have the pistol and its barrel but there's no mechanism in the law to permit having a prohibited device i.e. the barrel. Not that anyone is ever likely to get in trouble for having a barrel as long as it belongs to a gun. This issue is especially obvious for pistol kits that have multiple barrels.

But, again, this only applies to pistols. This topic is about a rifle and a restricted one at that, which means it can have any length of a barrel as long as it's not a result of being _cut_ below 18".
 
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KotKotofeich said:
The cut-off is just that - a cut-off. Make it into a pistol barrel and you are in trouble.



hbean beat me to quoting the law. Yes, it's ownership of the actual barrel that's prohibited. 12.6 and 12.7 grandfathered folks are kind of in legal limbo in the sense that they get to have the pistol and its barrel but there's no mechanism in the law to permit having a prohibited device i.e. the barrel. Not that anyone is ever likely to get in trouble for having a barrel as long as it belongs to a gun. This issue is especially obvious for pistol kits that have multiple barrels.

But, again, this only applies to pistols. This topic is about a rifle and a restricted one at that, which means it can have any length of a barrel as long as it's not a result of being _cut_ below 18".
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soooo when im making my barrel for my ar, and I get a blank 24" long and im making a 10" ar barrel hows that work? its new manufactured so ok? just cant cut down an existing one?
 
Bfranklin said:
If I purchase a 16" AR barrel it is not illegal to cut it down to whatever length I prefer. Note that I have no reason to do so considering that it is much easier to just purchase the desired length.

A barrel is not a regulated object until it is attached to a firearm.
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You're wrong on that. It is very illegal for you to shorten you're 16 inch AR barrel and if you get caught you could face numerous firearms charges. You can not shorten any barrel on a restricted firearm. It makes no sense since it technically still fits the restricted class but that's just how stupid our laws are.
I've even had gunsmiths tell me that it's technically illegal to shorten any barrel. I'm not sure about that one because I also know a few smiths that will shorten your bolt action rifle barrel without question.

In this instance, I don't care if it's legal or not. That's something the owner has to worry about not any of us. It's a cool project and even though I have no interest in the cartridge it's still an interesting conversion.

Beater said:
soooo when im making my barrel for my ar, and I get a blank 24" long and im making a 10" ar barrel hows that work? its new manufactured so ok? just cant cut down an existing one?
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Exactly, start from a blank and you are manufacturing a barrel, cut an existing barrel and you are breaking the law. I'm not even sure if it has to be from or for a restricted, I'd have to read through it all again which I don't care to do since I buy my barrels and if the barrel I have is not what I want for my build I sell it and buy one that's what I'm looking for.


Other than to hopefully stop the spread of bad information why are we all arguing about this? How about we let guys do whatever they want and when they end up in jail crying we just shrug our shoulders and continue to not care.
Anyone considering cutting or manufacturing a barrel would be an idiot if they didn't take the time to read through the laws and make sure they are not breaking any before they start their project. If they don't and they end up in jail then they deserve whatever they get. Why do the rest of us care?
 
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