Does putting and antique lock on a reproduction rifle make it 'Antique'?

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Taffer

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If I have an antique caplock rifle and I swap the reproduction lock out for an original, does it become an antique?

Not attempting to circumvent any laws here, I am simply wondering whether in the case of a rifle it is simply the whole thing or just the action that classifies it as antique.
 
Taffer said:
If I have an antique caplock rifle and I swap the reproduction lock out for an original, does it become an antique?

Not attempting to circumvent any laws here, I am simply wondering whether in the case of a rifle it is simply the whole thing or just the action that classifies it as antique.
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What an interesting question, especially in light of the current discussion around what makes something an 'assault weapon'.
 
You would have to replace more than just the lock. You would have to add a few other parts and replace the flash hole position etc.
 
A caplock rifle or shotgun does not have an action, only a lock, stock and barrel. If the gun has mixed antique and modern parts, what qualifies it as antique? Or modern? Many genuine dated antiques have replacement parts , from nipples, screws or springs to barrels or locks that have been replaced 5, 50, 100, 150 years ago. Are they still an antique in the eyes of the law, where is the line drawn, or is there one? An interesting question indeed.
 
The written rules available back in 95 when the previous c-68 garbage was established said that the "Barrel Plug" was the part that determine registration if needed. That would be after 1898. The barrel plug and perhaps with barrel are the main part that determines antique statues in my opinion. This is for muzzle loader arms. Cap and ball or others can or will be different.
 
The breechplug garbage mentioned above is about it.
There is no functional, working definition.
I am not sure that we would want the powers that be to come up with a carved in stone interpretation.

The op asks if swapping out the reproduction lock on an antique caplock rifle for an antique lock makes the thing antique.
I don't really understand the question. This is a prescribed antique rifle which has been fitted with a modern lock? Can't see that it wouldn't still be a prescribed antique, even with a modern lock.
A modern made caplock rifle is a n-r firearm. Installing an antique lock isn't going to make it antique.

Here are some questions:
This is an antique NOS lock.
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If it is assembled into a handgun using a pre-1898 barrel is the resulting gun a prescribed antique?
If it is assembled into a handgun using a modern barrel is the resulting gun a prescribed antique?
Pre-1898 breechplug in a modern barrel?
Would it make a difference if the chunk of wood used to carve the stock was pre-1898?
Can of worms.

Some years ago there was a case where a pre-1898 muzzleloading handgun was repaired using modern screws, etc. The authorities claimed that this resulted in loss of antique status, and the thing was a modern handgun. This claim was eventually rejected.
 

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A firearm's classification is based on its frame or receiver, with the provision that barrel length and cartridge chambered for can make a handgun prohibited. In the late 90s, I wrote to the RCMP commissioner asking what was the frame or receiver and asked him to direct the question to his technical staff. His reply was that an antique muzzle loader could usually be recognized by its design or construction. I replied that was not true and asked again for him to direct the question to his technical staff. This time I received a reply from the person who had directed the creation of the FRT table. His reply was that on those "rare" occasions when a gun could not be classified by design or construction, it was the breach plug and possibly the barrel which constituted the frame or receiver.

I think that if the barrel and breach plug are not together, both would be classed as "spare parts" and that would be important primarily in the case of handguns. If bill C71 becomes implemented it would also be important in terms of whether you needed to phone for a reference number for non restricted firearms.

just my opinion

cheers mooncoon
 
I would just call them and ask. I was in contact with a CFO tech a couple of years ago. I had an antique flintlock pistol that needed a new barrel. She told me that with the new barrel it was still an antique because the lock was original. Unfortunately I didn't think to get her name.
 
Don't say you're putting an antique lock on a reproduction firearm. It sounds better if you're putting repair parts on an antique lock.
 
Steppenwolf said:
I would just call them and ask. I was in contact with a CFO tech a couple of years ago. I had an antique flintlock pistol that needed a new barrel. She told me that with the new barrel it was still an antique because the lock was original. Unfortunately I didn't think to get her name.
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While I think the tech was wrong about the barrel, it does raise the question in my mind about the status of an antique whose original barrel had been sleeved

cheers mooncoon
 
Blastattack said:
Does it matter? As long as the firearm in question isn't a percussion cap ignition, then it's a non-firearm. Why would antique status matter?
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Because the original post specific asked about caplocks.

Should be a moot point in the case of a flintlock rifle but not if it's a flintlock pistol.... Don't you just love all the pointless complexity of it all! :confused:
 
This all all very interesting discourse. I was asking because I have access to both reproduction and original P53 enfield parts and am wondering what will and won't affect the status of the rifle.

A reproduction caplock as a base is a non-restricted, but at what point do replacements make it antique?

An original caplock is an antique, but at what point do repairs render it modern?

Where's the line? :p
 
Taffer said:
This all all very interesting discourse. I was asking because I have access to both reproduction and original P53 enfield parts and am wondering what will and won't affect the status of the rifle.

A reproduction caplock as a base is a non-restricted, but at what point do replacements make it antique?

An original caplock is an antique, but at what point do repairs render it modern?

Where's the line? :p
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I am no longer able to find the letter but in the late 90's, in response to a question to the RCMP, the reply was the breach plug and possibly the barrel were the frame or receiver of a muzzle loader. That would not apply to a small number of guns like Morse rifles which do have a true receiver. If you use an original barrel and breach plug to make a muzzle loading gun, the gun will be an antique. Everything else are spare parts.

cheers mooncoon
 
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