What is the best and worst thing that you can say about the M14?

I blame Barney (Testical Teacher) for getting me hooked on the platform after directly buying one of is "tuned" M305's:).
Love the stock irons and the feel/heft in my hands. Looks awesome. The main neg is the cost of ammo vs my AR.

Ended up selling the Norc for a SA M1A1 SOCOM16. The pros of the M305 even got better with the SA.......
 
This topic comes up now and again.....

For me, the best thing: it's like a wild horse - it might not look as pretty as a shiny show horse, it might a few flees, but will run all day long. It is accurate, it goes bang when it is supposed to, and the classic metal and wood feels good in my hands.

The worse thing: it's like a wild horse - you put a saddle on a wild horse and it goes crazy.....put a scope mount on a M14/M1A and it goes crazy.... the accuracy is gone and you are forever tuning it and tweaking it in a never ending pursuit of MOA accuracy......

Just my .02 cents
 
The best things are the sights and trigger. Way better in this regard than any of its contemporaries, they allowed the shooter to make the most of the rifle's mechanical accuracy.

The worst thing is the nonsensical reputation it enjoys. Driven by the blind patriotism of Americans who just cannot believe that an American gun could be the worst entry in a field of competitors, they willfully overlook that it was obsolescent the day it was prototyped, its production history was a disaster, its service history largely a disgrace, and that there wasn't a friendly foreign government on Earth that would even consider buying it over the FAL, G3, BM59, or SIG 510.
 
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The best things are the sights and trigger. Way better in this regard than any of its contemporaries, they allowed the shooter to make the most of the rifle's mechanical accuracy.

The worst thing is the nonsensical reputation it enjoys. Driven by the blind patriotism of Americans who just cannot believe that an American gun could be the worst entry in a field of competitors, they willfully overlook that it was obsolescent the day it was prototyped, its production history was a disaster, its service history largely a disgrace, and that there wasn't a friendly foreign government on Earth that would even consider buying it over the FAL, G3, BM59, or SIG 510.

The one exception is that Taiwan, aka Nationalist China, built their own M14s as the Type 57. Every other country that used M14s AFAIK was given them as aid from the US, rather than buying them. The M60 machine gun is similar, with most countries that actually had to buy their own choosing something else.
 

Great video. Obviously it brings-up some concerns with regards to consistent accuracy with the Springfield Armory variant. How does this compare with M305 experiences? How about M305a guns in 7.62x39? Any good news in this department?

My experience with a real Winchester M14 12.3 gun has been pretty so-so. A previous owner re-barreled it to 243 win - which is neat. What isn't neat is that the gun grenaded while I was shooting it. It seemed to have fired out-of-battery.

How can a gun that cost a gazillion dollars to develop - over the course of 20+ years - not have a designed-in system for preventing out-of-battery fire?
 
Great video. Obviously it brings-up some concerns with regards to consistent accuracy with the Springfield Armory variant. How does this compare with M305 experiences? How about M305a guns in 7.62x39? Any good news in this department?

My experience with a real Winchester M14 12.3 gun has been pretty so-so. A previous owner re-barreled it to 243 win - which is neat. What isn't neat is that the gun grenaded while I was shooting it. It seemed to have fired out-of-battery.

How can a gun that cost a gazillion dollars to develop - over the course of 20+ years - not have a designed-in system for preventing out-of-battery fire?

the platform does have a built in system designed to prevent out of battery and slam fires, assuming the manufacturer machined them to the correct dimensions and tolerances.
By and large, out of battery detonations in properly machined and built M14 type rifles are due to ammunition and not a fault of the rifle or a flaw in it's design.
Also on top of those built in safety features, most of the time the detonations will blow downward and out the magazine area of the rifle, somewhat protecting the shooter from grievous injury.
 
the platform does have a built in system designed to prevent out of battery and slam fires, assuming the manufacturer machined them to the correct dimensions and tolerances.
By and large, out of battery detonations in properly machined and built M14 type rifles are due to ammunition and not a fault of the rifle or a flaw in it's design.
Also on top of those built in safety features, most of the time the detonations will blow downward and out the magazine area of the rifle, somewhat protecting the shooter from grievous injury.

For your information there is a poster in another forum who says that he lost an eye to a Springfield miai (SIC?) which fired out of battery.

Here is the link.

How sure are you that these guns actually have out of battery protection systems?

In the case of my experience with the Winchester M14, the explosion did mostly go down - the mag was blown apart and the stock broke in two in my hands. My hands were injured by the concussion. The bolt also was blown out of the gun and badly mangled. Eye protection (which I was wearing) wouldn't have saved me if that bolt - and the blast behind it - had taken a different path. I consider myself lucky.
 
well, In the case of my experience , I was a rifle smith building these rifles for a number of years and not one has blown up.
I will let you do your own research into the built in safety mechanisms in the M14 rifle.
If the parts and receiver safety bridge are in spec to the drawing, an out of battery detonation is near impossible unless debris gets in the firing pin channel and jams the firing pin forward.
If your rifle is piercing primers , which happens sometimes with chicom surplus, those primer bits can cause a stuck firing pin. I've seen it happen. Not the rifle's fault.
A defective or worn trigger group and even poor stock fitment can also cause hammer follow but these are not a fault of the rifle, they are a fault of the operator/assembler

Not all m14 receivers are created equal so whenever buying and you can lay your hands on the rifle, checking the safety bridge function is wise. In fact every owner of an M14 type rifle of any manufacture should familiarize themselves with the safety bridge and how to check that it is in fact machined correctly and functioning as it should.
If a rifle has excessive headspace this can also lead to problems
if primers on reloads are not seated correctly..... this will lead to instant problems

if the rifle is machined and built to correct dimension/tolerance and the operator is practicing proper maintenance and reassembly and is using ammunition appropriate for the rifle's design and chamber dimensions...… these blow ups just do not happen. Making the m14 platform "as reliable" as any other semi auto battle rifle out there.
 
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well, In the case of my experience , I was a rifle smith building these rifles for a number of years and not one has blown up.
I will let you do your own research into the built in safety mechanisms in the M14 rifle.
If the parts and receiver safety bridge are in spec to the drawing, an out of battery detonation is near impossible unless debris gets in the firing pin channel and jams the firing pin forward.
If your rifle is piercing primers , which happens sometimes with chicom surplus, those primer bits can cause a stuck firing pin. I've seen it happen. Not the rifle's fault.
A defective or worn trigger group and even poor stock fitment can also cause hammer follow but these are not a fault of the rifle, they are a fault of the operator/assembler

Not all m14 receivers are created equal so whenever buying and you can lay your hands on the rifle, checking the safety bridge function is wise. In fact every owner of an M14 type rifle of any manufacture should familiarize themselves with the safety bridge and how to check that it is in fact machined correctly and functioning as it should.
If a rifle has excessive headspace this can also lead to problems
if primers on reloads are not seated correctly..... this will lead to instant problems

if the rifle is machined and built to correct dimension/tolerance and the operator is practicing proper maintenance and reassembly and is using ammunition appropriate for the rifle's design and chamber dimensions...… these blow ups just do not happen. Making the m14 platform "as reliable" as any other semi auto battle rifle out there.


I believe that doing "research into the built in safety mechanisms in the M14 rifle" or any gun is pretty simple. You don't have to consult news groups, read specs, etc.
All you have to do is load a properly-resized case with a primer. If you have a choice stick with the standard ones not magnums. Get a full face shield or your snowmobile helmet with the face guard locked down. Put on some welding gloves or similar. Chamber the primed case and hold the bolt back say 3/16s from closed, if its a locked breach gun or more like 5/16 if it is an unlocked breach/ blowback gun. Point the muzzle in a safe direction. Pull the trigger. If the gun goes bang you don't have out-of-battery protection.

If you don't reload then just get a factory round and remove the powder and bullet with an impact-type bullet puller.

If anybody does this, could your report your results here? It would be interesting. I'm betting some folks will be surprised.

For those who asked, if your gun doesn't have out-of-battery protection, keep your gun extra clean. Consider chamber-checking every round before firing.

If you reload, avoid brass fired from a Glock "like the plague" because, as I noted before, the gen 1 and 2 guns had grossly oversized chambers; supposedly to enhance reliability.

Cases fired from these guns will have oversized heads even after full length resizing - because your normal FL sizer die doesn't resize all the way to the rim. Some people says you shouldn't reload Glock brass at all - except if you know for sure that the reloads will only ever be shot in a similar Glock. Note: If you, for example, fire a reloaded round in your P08 that was made-up using brass fired-previously G17 Gen 1 - you are risking an expensive and dangerous OOB event.

Consider running all range-found pistol brass through a Lee Bulge Buster. You will be surprised. Some can't be forced through. Throw those hulls away.
 
so you started a thread about this in general discussion and now you are in this thread "trying" to have the same conversation?

there are already a routine list of safety checks for m14 owners and a whole nother list of do's and don'ts for reloading , I fail to see the relevance of your posts.
So you blew up a Winnie. I doubt it was the rifles fault but I wasn't there.
rambling off nonsense about firearms without out of battery protection LOL

the internet is a funny place some days.

The M14 sticky threads are all the guys here need to learn about how to safely operate and maintain their rifles. Posts like yours just serve to confuse people about non existant "issues"

now if you want to talk about real issues..... the latest m14 rifle imports are unsafe junk..... buyer beware.
 
so you started a thread about this in general discussion and now you are in this thread "trying" to have the same conversation?

there are already a routine list of safety checks for m14 owners and a whole nother list of do's and don'ts for reloading , I fail to see the relevance of your posts.
So you blew up a Winnie. I doubt it was the rifles fault but I wasn't there.
rambling off nonsense about firearms without out of battery protection LOL

the internet is a funny place some days.

The M14 sticky threads are all the guys here need to learn about how to safely operate and maintain their rifles. Posts like yours just serve to confuse people about non existant "issues"

now if you want to talk about real issues..... the latest m14 rifle imports are unsafe junk..... buyer beware.

This is kind'a cute. Like you said, you weren't there but I was so I can tell you that the day my "Winnie" grenaded in my hands, it actually didn't seem - at the time - like a non-existent issue. I don't know the guy who lost the eye; so you might need to pm him to see if that was a non-existent issue for him.

Facts are stubborn things so that's why I said just check your gun yourself. Why do you object that people test their guns and post the results of the testing? Like you say, the the internet is a funny place; and maybe your just trying to prove that.

I'm just saying test your own gun. Its simple.

And, yes I have already said it could have been my fault or something other than the gun - but the guy with the story of loosing an eye started to make me wonder. And BTW its pretty hard to overcharge a .243 round that already takes a 100% fill load.

Hey, and since you seem like a pretty passionate guy, you'll probably be happy to know that I suffered no lasting harm and the gun has been repaired.
 
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M14 has all the safety features of the M1...firing pin bridge that slows the firing pin inertia during cycling when the bolt is closing, also prevents the firing pin from contacting the primer until the bolt is in battery, and a hammer design that won't contact the firing pin unless the bolt is in battery, and a very solid trigger disconnect that prevents any kind of runaway.
It would be very hard to have an out of battery shooting experience by pulling the trigger with an M1 or M14.
Slamfire is a different animal, and could happen to any rifle/pistol/shotgun...hell a guy had one with a bolt action in the reloading forum not too long ago...thread is still there.
Now, if you bought that 243 M14 and did not have it looked over before firing it and blowing it up, that's on you. Not every gunsmith is qualified to work on this platform, do you even know who did the re-barrel work when you bought it?
Your own reloads, again, that is probably the issue right there. 99% of the out of battery issues involve reloads, people make mistakes, and all it takes is one.
 
M14 has all the safety features of the M1...firing pin bridge that slows the firing pin inertia during cycling when the bolt is closing, also prevents the firing pin from contacting the primer until the bolt is in battery, and a hammer design that won't contact the firing pin unless the bolt is in battery, and a very solid trigger disconnect that prevents any kind of runaway.
It would be very hard to have an out of battery shooting experience by pulling the trigger with an M1 or M14.
Slamfire is a different animal, and could happen to any rifle/pistol/shotgun...hell a guy had one with a bolt action in the reloading forum not too long ago...thread is still there.
Now, if you bought that 243 M14 and did not have it looked over before firing it and blowing it up, that's on you. Not every gunsmith is qualified to work on this platform, do you even know who did the re-barrel work when you bought it?
Your own reloads, again, that is probably the issue right there. 99% of the out of battery issues involve reloads, people make mistakes, and all it takes is one.

All good to convince me that it can't happen, but it did. Ditto (apparently) for the guy who lost and eye. Pretty simple to just test the guns to see if they can actually fire out of battery. All theory aside, have you tried it? If not, why not ... (awkward)

Also your post seems to imply that this had something to do with not checking the gun with a gunsmith before use "that 243 M14 and did not have it looked over before firing it and blowing it up, that's on you. Not every gunsmith is qualified to work on this platform, do you even know who did the re-barrel work when you bought it? "

i.e., like it happened on round one.

Where did you get that?

More like round 450.

Nope, IMO something allowed that round to enter the chamber and not fully close before the chamber should have locked the system and eliminated any possibility of out of battery fire - thereby, eliminating any possibility of allowing the primer to ignite. i.e., firing out-of-battery. All good stuff, IF TRUE.

Get real. Check your gun, can it happen? Don't be a goof. Tell me what you found, either way. REALLY. I'm an open minded guy...
 
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On the M14 / m1a / M305 . M1 garand if you look at How many were made and how many rounds have been fired in them over the years
M1 garand went into production 1937 = 82 years combined

The few axcidents that have been reported have been very few

yes Dirt, etc can get into the bolt and cause the firing pin to stick = not good
yes you can load a round into the chamber and let the bolt go from the rear most position = not good
yes you can use soft primers = not good
and a few other problems = not good

do people who own the M14 / m1a / M305 / M1 garand think about having a problem .... Yes ... but the chances of it happening are very slim
 
This is kind'a cute. Like you said, you weren't there but I was so I can tell you that the day my "Winnie" grenaded in my hands, it actually didn't seem - at the time - like a non-existent issue. I don't know the guy who lost the eye; so you might need to pm him to see if that was a non-existent issue for him.

Facts are stubborn things so that's why I said just check your gun yourself. Why do you object that people test their guns and post the results of the testing? Like you say, the the internet is a funny place; and maybe your just trying to prove that.

I'm just saying test your own gun. Its simple.

And, yes I have already said it could have been my fault or something other than the gun - but the guy with the story of loosing an eye started to make me wonder. And BTW its pretty hard to overcharge a .243 round that already takes a 100% fill load.

Hey, and since you seem like a pretty passionate guy, you'll probably be happy to know that I suffered no lasting harm and the gun has been repaired.

I've tested literally 100's.... and more..... with the proper methods and tools/measuring equipment. I have also taught dozens and dozens and dozens of fellow cgn'ers how to do the same , in person, in a "class room" environment.
This test you detailed is silly and pointless and an over run from the thread you started in the general discussion forum.

Thanx to guys like skullboy, tactical teacher, and several others including myself , your advice is not required on this platform as the safety checks and information already accumulated here, details the "correct" procedures for assembling, inspecting and operating the m14 platform.

Never in all my years have I read or been instructed by professional gunsmiths to perform the procedures you suggest, to see if I can make a rifle go off out of battery...… absolutely silly
I have no wish to continue an endless back and forth but when people start posting nonsensical garbage about the m14 platform..... I'm a gonna play wackamole :evil:
 
I HAD a Springfield M1A "loaded" model, was fun!!! Put probably 600 or so rounds before I sold it (not because I didn't like it)

- PROS -

- N/R if you get the right barrel length...any rifle you can use off the range and/or hunt with means you will probably get more overall practice with
- lots of customization/upgrades/parts out there (BUT can be pricey)
- the stock irons are GREAT, like really!!!
- in a great caliber (my favorite!!!)...good power, good for hunting big game (deer/elk, bear) and good long range abilities
- classic, awesome looks!!!
- magazines are cheap

- CONS -

- In its stock configuration 22" barrel with long flash hider it is a quite a long rifle....the overall length of it is worse then the "weight" of it IMO, can be fixed tho with an 18.5" chop and a shorter muzzle brake or flash hider, folding stocks are an option too
- hard and $$$ to get any decent trigger/trigger work (not many do it)
- like I said in the pros...some upgrades can be costly (any may need to import them from the USA)
- needs to be bedded and "tuned" (gas system) to really shine in the accuracy department...can be a little tricky and $$$ to do if a n00b
- the caliber 7.62/.308 while great...is not cheap to shoot!!! (not a real ding against it tho, I love .30 cals)
- a good scope mount isn't cheap (I personally liked the A.R.M.S. #18 one)
 
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