ATRS is worth the money?

[#1bcshooter]

That's defeatist to the max.


There's been a metric #### ton of it around here the last few weeks. All this negativity isn't going to help us one bit.


You guys sound so eager to lose your guns, you might actually cause it to become reality.


How about we could win, eh? How about we could keep all our guns, how about we actually focus on keeping our guns instead of losing them? How's that for a change?

Don't know if you are aware but we didn't win .
The liberals & Mr Dress up are still in power .
We had a chance to stop it .
Do you really think he will change his mind ?
Once the ban is in place dealers & manufacturers will no longer be able to sell any of the firearms that are included in it .
So there will be no more non restricted price gouging until there is a change in power & they reverse the damage done by the Liberals .

 

[Dietz]

Don't know if you are aware but we didn't win .
The liberals & Mr Dress up are still in power .
We had a chance to stop it .
Do you really think he will change his mind ?
Once the ban is in place dealers & manufacturers will no longer be able to sell any of the firearms that are included in it .
So there will be no more non restricted price gouging until there is a change in power & they reverse the damage done by the Liberals .

Once the ban is in place? Will no longer? So there will be? ...

Mr. dressup didn't ban guns with a majority government while he had every opportunity to do so without hiderance from an opposition, now he has a minority. Nothing is done, zero, yet you guys are acting like guns are already banned.


The liberals really got into your heads.




I'm not derailing this thread any further.

 

[ColinD]

Guns are already banned for 35 million people in this country, yet some of these banned people still manage to get them.

I'm not worried at all.

And yes, the ATRS is worth it. Support more Canadian manufacturers.

 

[Mumbles Marble Mouth]

The aluminum receiver of the ATRS is top notch. So most people who build their own MS are building a way better gun than a Daniel Defense although they may be spending well up into the $4000 +. I myself don’t need anything fancy. I just want a 20” M16 pattern non-restricted rifle. I will be able to build that for under $2000 all in. I would much rather have that then a ACR or XCR as both of those rifles were denied by the US military as they didn’t offer anything better than what the M16/M4 is.

 

[Czarface]

That's defeatist to the max.


There's been a metric #### ton of it around here the last few weeks. All this negativity isn't going to help us one bit.


You guys sound so eager to lose your guns, you might actually cause it to become reality.


How about we could win, eh? How about we could keep all our guns, how about we actually focus on keeping our guns instead of losing them? How's that for a change?

Amen bro!! I at first didn’t know what was meant by his statement, let’s be positive and not negative!

 

[awesomealvin]

I have no doubt ATRS produces quality products, the problem I have is the lead time. According to their site, pre-orders put in April 2019 has an estimated delivery of Spring 2020. That's an entire year wait! And it's not a small $200 "I am committed" deposit, it's a $500 "I will cover the cost of goods sold, and the remaining 50% would be all gravy".

This is their 3rd run, it's not like they are waiting for approval. 7075 Aluminum is plentiful on the market, plenty of shops around the country is capable of anodizing. The time of delivery is limited to how long it would take them to cut metal on a CNC. 2-3 months wait I can accept, schedule a run once a quarter. But an entire year? This is your 3rd run! Why would it take an entire year?

Eugene Stoner designed the AR to be easily manufactured without complex forging/stamping/casting tools. Any machine shop with CNC Lathe/Mill setup shop within a couple months and pump out 80% of the parts. The lead time is so long, we might get different firearm laws by the time they start to ship.

 

[jiffx2781]

Short answer: YES

 

[Gmwebs]

I have no doubt ATRS produces quality products, the problem I have is the lead time. According to their site, pre-orders put in April 2019 has an estimated delivery of Spring 2020. That's an entire year wait! And it's not a small $200 "I am committed" deposit, it's a $500 "I will cover the cost of goods sold, and the remaining 50% would be all gravy".

This is their 3rd run, it's not like they are waiting for approval. 7075 Aluminum is plentiful on the market, plenty of shops around the country is capable of anodizing. The time of delivery is limited to how long it would take them to cut metal on a CNC. 2-3 months wait I can accept, schedule a run once a quarter. But an entire year? This is your 3rd run! Why would it take an entire year?

Eugene Stoner designed the AR to be easily manufactured without complex forging/stamping/casting tools. Any machine shop with CNC Lathe/Mill setup shop within a couple months and pump out 80% of the parts. The lead time is so long, we might get different firearm laws by the time they start to ship.

very good point. I got one of the first runs for the MS and I really like it. That being said with the demand there should be a better way to scale this. even if you license it to other machine shops. Maybe forging?

The biggest annoyance with the MS, the magazine on the leading edge sticks out way to much and without gloves is uncomfortable.

 

[ColinD]

I have no doubt ATRS produces quality products, the problem I have is the lead time. According to their site, pre-orders put in April 2019 has an estimated delivery of Spring 2020. That's an entire year wait! And it's not a small $200 "I am committed" deposit, it's a $500 "I will cover the cost of goods sold, and the remaining 50% would be all gravy".

This is their 3rd run, it's not like they are waiting for approval. 7075 Aluminum is plentiful on the market, plenty of shops around the country is capable of anodizing. The time of delivery is limited to how long it would take them to cut metal on a CNC. 2-3 months wait I can accept, schedule a run once a quarter. But an entire year? This is your 3rd run! Why would it take an entire year?

Eugene Stoner designed the AR to be easily manufactured without complex forging/stamping/casting tools. Any machine shop with CNC Lathe/Mill setup shop within a couple months and pump out 80% of the parts. The lead time is so long, we might get different firearm laws by the time they start to ship.

It's kind of a double edged sword. ATRS stated that they would like to invest big time into new equipment to pump these babies out faster, but they won't take the business risk due to the political atmosphere.

As far as long lead times, the second run had a delay due to machine malfunction which caused them to have to redo a bunch of lowers. This pushed the 3rd run out as well. The good news is if you order right now, you'll also get yours in the spring/summer of 2020. That's only about 6-7 months from now. They also have done some retooling that allows them to do more receivers at one time in the CNC compared to how they did it before. The third run hasn't even started yet, they say they'll start production end of November. With that info, it's clear they were able to increase production, and cut time by a considerable amount since the 1st and 2nd runs.

 

[rally guy]

very good point. I got one of the first runs for the MS and I really like it. That being said with the demand there should be a better way to scale this. even if you license it to other machine shops. Maybe forging?

The biggest annoyance with the MS, the magazine on the leading edge sticks out way to much and without gloves is uncomfortable.

I tend to agree it is not a rifle to do a magwell grip, the DD magwell on the DD is also flared but less agressively it is much more confortable on the hand. It is my only mini gripes with the rifle

 

[cr5]

I've owned more AR's than I can remember, a couple ACR's, a gen 1 XCR, a Swiss Arms classic green flat top, AR180B-2, and quite a few more non restricted firearms.
They were all reliable and well built.
Only the person putting his/her cash on the table can decide if they're worth the money. If you shoot less than 200 rounds a year none of them are really worth the money, but if you're a true nut and run a few thousand rounds through a year and/or compete in any class shooting sport that allows this style of rifle they're probably worth the money.

As for the quality of the ATRS product, I've owned numerous items from them and all were top notch with no issues or blemishes of any kind, my Modern Hunter functioned well but ATRS still took it in and did all the updates for free to bring it up to the standards of the newest production rifles (same day service).

Having to wait a year is not a negative for me, I just bypassed the line by shopping on the EE and snatching up the first set I found from a guy not trying to rape his fellow gun nuts.

I have no doubt ATRS produces quality products, the problem I have is the lead time. According to their site, pre-orders put in April 2019 has an estimated delivery of Spring 2020. That's an entire year wait! And it's not a small $200 "I am committed" deposit, it's a $500 "I will cover the cost of goods sold, and the remaining 50% would be all gravy".

This is their 3rd run, it's not like they are waiting for approval. 7075 Aluminum is plentiful on the market, plenty of shops around the country is capable of anodizing. The time of delivery is limited to how long it would take them to cut metal on a CNC. 2-3 months wait I can accept, schedule a run once a quarter. But an entire year? This is your 3rd run! Why would it take an entire year?

Eugene Stoner designed the AR to be easily manufactured without complex forging/stamping/casting tools. Any machine shop with CNC Lathe/Mill setup shop within a couple months and pump out 80% of the parts. The lead time is so long, we might get different firearm laws by the time they start to ship.

Go visit the shop, they are a small shop so production is slow compared to other manufacturers. I completely understand them not expanding to increase production rates in today's political climate, I doubt we have to worry but there is a possibility of the libs imposing more restrictions on firearms in Canada which would definitely negatively affect business for a Canadian firearms manufacturer.

As Dietz has said though, they didn't screw us with a majority so they're not going to be able to screw us with a minority.
Everyone needs to stop being so negative and expecting the worst all the time, fight for your rights, don't just lay down like all the turds dumping all their rifles on the EE.
It's a real buyers market right now though for people with some cash in their hand. I've been tempted to pick up a few more rifles but really can't think of any others I want or need.

 

[awesomealvin]

I've owned more AR's than I can remember, a couple ACR's, a gen 1 XCR, a Swiss Arms classic green flat top, AR180B-2, and quite a few more non restricted firearms.
They were all reliable and well built.
Only the person putting his/her cash on the table can decide if they're worth the money. If you shoot less than 200 rounds a year none of them are really worth the money, but if you're a true nut and run a few thousand rounds through a year and/or compete in any class shooting sport that allows this style of rifle they're probably worth the money.

As for the quality of the ATRS product, I've owned numerous items from them and all were top notch with no issues or blemishes of any kind, my Modern Hunter functioned well but ATRS still took it in and did all the updates for free to bring it up to the standards of the newest production rifles (same day service).

Having to wait a year is not a negative for me, I just bypassed the line by shopping on the EE and snatching up the first set I found from a guy not trying to rape his fellow gun nuts.



Go visit the shop, they are a small shop so production is slow compared to other manufacturers. I completely understand them not expanding to increase production rates in today's political climate, I doubt we have to worry but there is a possibility of the libs imposing more restrictions on firearms in Canada which would definitely negatively affect business for a Canadian firearms manufacturer.

As Dietz has said though, they didn't screw us with a majority so they're not going to be able to screw us with a minority.
Everyone needs to stop being so negative and expecting the worst all the time, fight for your rights, don't just lay down like all the turds dumping all their rifles on the EE.
It's a real buyers market right now though for people with some cash in their hand. I've been tempted to pick up a few more rifles but really can't think of any others I want or need.

Don't get me wrong, I love the spirit of ATRS. The way I see it, the more receiver sets ATRS can put in our hands, the better of we are on the political stage. Even at $1000, the receiver sets will sell out 100%, and the slow turnaround is really not helping. Not that I want to teach them how to run their business, but I really don't see why you'll need more than a CNC mill and couple fixtures to make these receiver sets. If I was ATRS, I would have license the design out to various shops around the country and start pumping out more.

 

[griffin86]

Don't get me wrong, I love the spirit of ATRS. The way I see it, the more receiver sets ATRS can put in our hands, the better of we are on the political stage. Even at $1000, the receiver sets will sell out 100%, and the slow turnaround is really not helping. Not that I want to teach them how to run their business, but I really don't see why you'll need more than a CNC mill and couple fixtures to make these receiver sets. If I was ATRS, I would have license the design out to various shops around the country and start pumping out more.

I would never let someone else make my products.

 

[jiffx2781]

Don't get me wrong, I love the spirit of ATRS. The way I see it, the more receiver sets ATRS can put in our hands, the better of we are on the political stage. Even at $1000, the receiver sets will sell out 100%, and the slow turnaround is really not helping. Not that I want to teach them how to run their business, but I really don't see why you'll need more than a CNC mill and couple fixtures to make these receiver sets. If I was ATRS, I would have license the design out to various shops around the country and start pumping out more.

Apparently they were approached by BCL and asked about doing this exact same thing... would you want your ATRS product produced by BCL I know I wouldn't.

ATRS seems to be firmly of the position that they don't want anyone to have control over the quality of any product with their name on it but themselves. And I sincerely thank them for that.

 

[jiffx2781]

I would never let someone else make my products.

^^^ griffin gets it

 

[no-one special]

Don't get me wrong, I love the spirit of ATRS. The way I see it, the more receiver sets ATRS can put in our hands, the better of we are on the political stage. Even at $1000, the receiver sets will sell out 100%, and the slow turnaround is really not helping. Not that I want to teach them how to run their business, but I really don't see why you'll need more than a CNC mill and couple fixtures to make these receiver sets. If I was ATRS, I would have license the design out to various shops around the country and start pumping out more.

You want to lend them a couple million dollars to purchase more machines, which would mean they need a larger facility? Maybe approach Rick and just buy his company. I am sure he is sick and tired of all the back seat drivers telling him how to run his business.
ATRS is reknowned for producing quality, unlike most other Canadian manufacturers. Do you really think that by out sourcing to another licensed firearms manufacturer such as NEA, BCL or MDI the quality will be the same, or even the material for that matter? Doubtful as helll.
The series of aluminum they are using is not as common as you may think. I was dumbfounded to hear they have to get an export license from DOS for aluminum bar stock.
Apparently the grade of aluminum they use and the dimension of the bar makes it ITAR controlled. Who would have guessed?

 

[awesomealvin]

Calm down guys...I mean license the design, not the product. Any shop that makes it would be responsible for the manufacturing, sales, and service. Kinda like say...the AR15? But unlike AR's, ATRS get's a kick for every one sold. And even if ATRS does license other shops to do their own products, I don't see anything wrong with it. ATRS would always be the gatekeeper. Make a set of go/no-go gauges, ship it off to the CM, if it does not pass inspection...send it back.

I feel like I need to say this again, this is just a suggestion...I'm not teaching them how to do their business. ATRS got a gem of a design that's NR, I just wish to have more of these in the hands of Canadians. Cheers.

 

[Brian46]

I would never let someone else make my products.

I guess you must think Sig makes crap guns because they license other manufacturers to make their designs, like Chile and the SG542 for example

 

[Armedsask]

I really don't see why you'll need more than a CNC mill and couple fixtures to make these receiver sets.

These are the thoughts of someone who has no knowledge of what it takes to actually manufacture something. There is so much more involved, especially if you want to put out a quality product.

All it takes is one licensed manufacturer to put out crap product and your name is mud. Just look at all the junk AR15 makers out there. They figured all you needed was a CNC machine and some fixtures. That's a decades old design that every #### head with a mill can make.

 

[griffin86]

I guess you must think Sig makes crap guns because they license other manufacturers to make their designs, like Chile and the SG542 for example

Does the Famae SG540 sell for a premium like the Sig SG550?

One of the latest examples of businesses screwing over licensing is F&D Defense and FoldAR. Once the other company has your IP, how do you get your money? What if they modify your design and sell it as something else? Rick has said he doesn’t bother with Patents because it’s not worth fighting in court over.