Black powder in a 44 colt/special/russian case

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PhantomNomad

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I've got a new Cimarron 1872 open top single action army chambered in 44 special/colt/russian. I've also got a couple of 1850 black powder 44 calibers. I'm thinking of loading up a few (5) case of 44 colt with black powder instead of smokeless just for the old timey feeling. Has anyone here done this? How many grains of BP FFFg would you start with? Any special filler to use to make sure I get a tight fit?

Thanks.
 
fill the case with enough room left for the bullet with a little compression on the powder and use a black powder lube in the grease groove of the bullets anything petroleum based will make a tar in the barrel. id use fffg powder
 
Your .44 Spl. cases will hold 25 grs of FFg, less in the Russian, no filler. This is a mild load, so fillers are not going to accomplish anything.
 
I reload BP and it has taken a while to make a good .44 Russian load, because original cases were different (baloon head) and fit a little more.

You really need to fill the case, typically FFFG, and use a lighter (and lubed) bullet to avoid squibs.

Vlad P.
 
I’m about to do that with 44 and 45 colt. Just got some soft non lubed bullets from Terry at Jet Bullets that look really good.
 
Some solid advice here already. However, allow me to add my method to the list. Have used this same method on a variety of pistol cartridges, from .38 Long Colt, to .45 Colt. Including:.44 Mag/ Special. Follows pretty much the same procedure as figuring out a safe powder charge, using Trail Boss. But, was doing it this long before TB came out.
First: Determine seating depth of the bullet you intend to use. Easy to do: Measure from bullet base to crimp groove. Once you have it, mark that measurement on a small, flat ended rod, pencil, etc. I usually just wrap a bit of tape around the end of the rod, then mark it at the right depth, with a pencil, or fine tipped magic marker. Then, mark another spot, about: 1/16"- 1/8", lower down the rod(Nearer the end. I usually mark both). Fill the case with the selected granulation of powder, ie: fffg, to the level of the first mark. Then, add a bit more powder, until it corresponds to the second mark. Dump the powder into the measuring pan of your scale, and note the number of grains. This will be your powder charge, including compression. During the loading process, measure each powder charge individually, just like you would loading smokeless powder. Finally, crimp the bullet firmly into the case. Sounds more complicated, than it really is.
Loading black powder pistol cases isn't an exact science. So, a few tenths of a grain one way or the other, will make little difference in the outcome. Luckily, there is another, easier method, which removes all the tedium of measuring each powder charge individually.
Most folks I know will use a scoop of some kind( cut down casing, Lee scoop, etc), that closely matches the scale reading. Dip a scoopful of powder, level it off, dump into the case. Faster and easier than measuring charges. My preferred method, once the 'master' charge has been determined.
Some folks will use an overpowder wad, some don't. The primary use of the wad is simply to control the charge weight, while still getting sufficient compression. If you want to reduce your powder charge from, say: 30 grains, to 20, a felt overpowder wad can be used to fill in the space. Effective, but time consuming. Generally speaking, I don't bother with this, and simply load the full charge, with the bullet crimped down firmly. Hope some of this helps.
 
Alex McKr said:
Some solid advice here already. However, allow me to add my method to the list. Have used this same method on a variety of pistol cartridges, from .38 Long Colt, to .45 Colt. Including:.44 Mag/ Special. Follows pretty much the same procedure as figuring out a safe powder charge, using Trail Boss. But, was doing it this long before TB came out.
First: Determine seating depth of the bullet you intend to use. Easy to do: Measure from bullet base to crimp groove. Once you have it, mark that measurement on a small, flat ended rod, pencil, etc. I usually just wrap a bit of tape around the end of the rod, then mark it at the right depth, with a pencil, or fine tipped magic marker. Then, mark another spot, about: 1/16"- 1/8", lower down the rod(Nearer the end. I usually mark both). Fill the case with the selected granulation of powder, ie: fffg, to the level of the first mark. Then, add a bit more powder, until it corresponds to the second mark. Dump the powder into the measuring pan of your scale, and note the number of grains. This will be your powder charge, including compression. During the loading process, measure each powder charge individually, just like you would loading smokeless powder. Finally, crimp the bullet firmly into the case. Sounds more complicated, than it really is.
Loading black powder pistol cases isn't an exact science. So, a few tenths of a grain one way or the other, will make little difference in the outcome. Luckily, there is another, easier method, which removes all the tedium of measuring each powder charge individually.
Most folks I know will use a scoop of some kind( cut down casing, Lee scoop, etc), that closely matches the scale reading. Dip a scoopful of powder, level it off, dump into the case. Faster and easier than measuring charges. My preferred method, once the 'master' charge has been determined.
Some folks will use an overpowder wad, some don't. The primary use of the wad is simply to control the charge weight, while still getting sufficient compression. If you want to reduce your powder charge from, say: 30 grains, to 20, a felt overpowder wad can be used to fill in the space. Effective, but time consuming. Generally speaking, I don't bother with this, and simply load the full charge, with the bullet crimped down firmly. Hope some of this helps.
Click to expand...

and to add remember you can only weigh real black powder by weight substitutes can only be measured by volume
 
antiqueguy said:
their volume for volume equivalent once you have a known volume no reason you can't weigh it just do go throwing 25gr of pryodex p on the scale thinking that's going to be the same as 25gr of fffg
Click to expand...

As Alex pointed out, measuring is faster than weighing - but if someone preferred weighing, their is no reason that he couldn't do it, once he knew the desired charge.
 
Tiriaq and antique guy are perfectly correct. Only real black powder, ie: Goex...will result in an accurate measurement, for the 'master' charge. My apologies for not mentioning that. After this long, it becomes second nature. Too easy to forget that there are others out there, who may not be familiar with blackpowder firearms and loading.
BP substitutes like Pyrodex, are something like 15% lighter in weight, than black powder. So, as mentioned, actual charge weights as measured on a scale, will be far out. I ALWAYS determine my actual charge weight, using only real black powder FIRST. Then, once I know which scoop to use, I can then safely use it to measure the corresponding VOLUME of Pyrodex, to match the charge weight. Some of the other bp subs, like 777, or APP, have their own way to determine proper powder charge. Follow their instructions, and you will be fine.
 
Further to the conversation: For an easier workaround that eliminates having to weigh powder charges at all(I've done this, but still prefer to weigh bp charges, particularly where consistent accuracy and performance is a must. Or, when loading for a new cartridge).....simply use a volumetric measure designed to throw black powder pistol charges. These will typically throw anywhere between say: 10-50 grains. You can use the same volumetric measure when using Pyrodex, too.
Follow the simple bullet measuring method outlined before. The charge that gives you at least 1/16" compression, will be the one to use.
 
Forgot to add: It bears mentioning that, some powder granulations/types will deliver better performance in some cartridges, versus others. , For example: FFg vs Fffg black powder. Some folks swear that the only powder to use in bp pistol cartridges, is Fffg. Others say there is little difference between one and the other. Besides Ffg being a bit softer shooting, and sootier. While Fffg burns a bit cleaner. But has a sharper recoil pulse. So, powder choice remains a personal one.
From my observations, I've noted that many cartridges don't really differ that much in performance, whether using Ffg, rather than Fffg. Within reason. Small cases, ie: .38 Short/Long Colt. The small case capacity of these cartridges, pretty much dictates a correspondingly faster burning powder, for optimum performance. So, Fffg, would be the logical choice.
Larger-capacity cases: .38 Special etc., seem to perform equally well, whether using Ffg, or Fffg. The only real differences being those stated above: sootier vs cleaner. Softer vs sharper. This also holds true all the way up to the larger calibres: .44, .45, etc.
There are exceptions to any rule, though. So, don't use my examples as being bound in iron. It will only matter what your pistol prefers.

Hope this helps.
 
I will agree with everything that Alex has written. Lots of good points about the basics of black powder cartridge loading for pistol or plinking ammo.

He's done a better job of it than I would have had the patience to do typing on my phone too.

One thing not mentioned is to use a non petroleum product lube meant for black powder. Easy to make from bees wax and Crisco or olive oil (lots of simple recipes online) or get some SPG or dragon lube.
 
vagrantviking: I had thought of adding that, then forgot. Thanks for catching it. A good homemade lube recipe, can be found on Mike Beliveau's you tube site: duelist1954. Mike, is the black powder Editor for: ' Guns of the Old West' magazine, and has likely forgotten more about black powder shooting, than I'll ever know. He has a dandy video tutorial on making black powder compatible lube. Well worth a look.
One last thing: Make sure your bullets feature a generous lube reservoir, in the shank. Essential for keeping barrel fouling soft. I believe the OP mentioned he already owns a couple of bp revolvers. So likely doesn't need reminding. Still, may be useful to others thinking about getting into bp cartridge revolver shooting.
 
Youtube is a good place to find videos on this sort of stuff. This is a reloading method for 357 mag, but any straight wall case is similar. The video doesn't go into much detail on how to get the exact volume of powder, but it does show you how to prep bullets and make your own lube, and powder drop tubes, etc:

Part 1

Part 2
 
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