I bet you guys would, and I'm sure it would be a shooter
. But then it wouldn't be a coyote. I may still buy a .308 coyote one day, I have a few friends that are very happy with theirs, definitely nice rifles.
PGW Coyote feedback
- Thread starter Falcon77
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I bet you guys would, and I'm sure it would be a shooter
. But then it wouldn't be a coyote. I may still buy a .308 coyote one day, I have a few friends that are very happy with theirs, definitely nice rifles.
Oldsmobiler
CGN Regular
- Location
- Coquitlam, BC
That's pedantic. Why don't you just ask Defiance for a 3-lug with 700 style extractor. Oh wait, they don't make those.
PGW can build custom Coyotes. They are a manufacturer, not a normal gunsmith outfit.
Custom: Made or performed according to personal order.
EDIT: and I've seen a Coyote with a magnum boltface, too
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Yes, there's options.
You are stuck with one action (albeit it's a good one) and either their chassis or a McM A5 as the action is a proprietary footprint. You are limited to PGW mags, so you can't run BR type cartridges nor the plethora of excellent AICS pattern mags available.
There are limitations to the system when it comes to options. Yes, PGW can build you whatever you want, but then it's not a really a Coyote.
Not sure why this is so contentious. I've said many times in here that coyotes are awesome rifles, which they are. If the options suit you, then excellent, it will be a damn good rifle. Have shot and handled more then a few of them, probably more then most in this thread. I'm not a fan of the chassis, and I prefer other options over the McM A5 (have had two McM A5's). I can't run BR cartridges nor AICS pattern mags. Those are a couple of reasons why I would personally pick a custom over a Coyote.
If you love either the chassis or the McM A5, and can get it in the chambering you want, they are wicked rifles. Call it whatever you want, but I consider it a high end factory rifle (like an AI, Cadex, DTA, etc) - we can agree to disagree on that.
I seem to recall that PGW got it's start from building custom rifles. Also I've seen a few custom for F type competitions based on the PGW. But I have to agree that if buying a "Coyote" that there is the expectation it's the military styled rifle and not a custom.
I only had three concerns regarding the PGW Coyote. Not really a concern though.
1) Proprietary mags. Wish it used the AICS pattern as I have a number of those already.
2) Barrel twist is 1:10 and for a military based precision rifle in 308, I prefer 1:11.25 which seems to love 168-175 smk. But I've been assured by many on here that my 175 SMk rounds based on the older M118LR (hotter than current 175 federal gold) will shoot very accurately out of the 1:10 twist PGW barrel.
3) Price. However it's in line with the competition.
As an informal target shooter, not a competitor and a bit of a collector I will be adding a Coyote to the collection. I prefer these types of rifles, mostly because I like that they are military grade, extremely accurate and I like the tactical look. For collecting, these factory rifles are the only way to go as they retain their value and a custom generally doesn't. If competing then I would get a rifle that was customized or specifically built for that purpose/type of competition.
I only had three concerns regarding the PGW Coyote. Not really a concern though.
1) Proprietary mags. Wish it used the AICS pattern as I have a number of those already.
2) Barrel twist is 1:10 and for a military based precision rifle in 308, I prefer 1:11.25 which seems to love 168-175 smk. But I've been assured by many on here that my 175 SMk rounds based on the older M118LR (hotter than current 175 federal gold) will shoot very accurately out of the 1:10 twist PGW barrel.
3) Price. However it's in line with the competition.
As an informal target shooter, not a competitor and a bit of a collector I will be adding a Coyote to the collection. I prefer these types of rifles, mostly because I like that they are military grade, extremely accurate and I like the tactical look. For collecting, these factory rifles are the only way to go as they retain their value and a custom generally doesn't. If competing then I would get a rifle that was customized or specifically built for that purpose/type of competition.
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Very high praise indeed. You have some nice firearms. Also really like the look of those matching safes that you have posted in a few threads. Just looks cool.
Have to agree regarding the looks. Although I was originally looking at Tan and have to say I'm really liking the black one that 6MT has posted. It's swayed me to go for the more traditional black tactical rifle. The shape sets it off from other rifles. Chassis for me.
Accuracy. Well... a .50 moa or less rifle with factory ammo right out of the box isn't that rare. I bought my first one for $1000 in 2008. The older Remington 5R milspec. I've shot 5 of them and they were all sub .5 moa out of the box with Federal gold. Love that rifle. Nothing like having a factory $1000 rifle that was able to beat out 3K semi custom rigs. If you want a poor man's M2010 get a Remington 5R milspec and put it into a Cadex chassis. Keep in mind the M2010 chassis design was co designed and owned by Cadex. I have one of these. Tough to beat for the $2600 I paid to pair the two (both bought separately off the EE).
That being said, nothing but high praise for PGW from many on here and friends I've shot with. In my case it's not a one or the other, but rather I want one to add to a collection. Price isn't inexpensive but it's competitive with the comparable.
Living vicariously until I can get the funds together to buy my own PGW Coyote. Contacted Ross and Steve. Quick response. It's really just a matter of when at this point.
A Toyota Corolla can go from point A to point B , a Bentley can do the same thing,
My answer is regarding the main question of this Topic,
Basically the question is for people who has or had the Coyote ,
Your main factor " TO HAVE " is money ,
you may right unless you make your own experience by having that ,
I can say 99% of PGW Coyote rifles.on the market can do less that .5 MOA but you gave me example with Rem 700 5R , maybe 40% can shoot SUB MOA right out of the box ,
I shared my opinion so far but I'm going to talk about facts ,
If you are planning to build the same rifle " Coyote "
Heavy barrel Keriger, fluted with muzzle brake , magazine and accessories , custom trigger, match bolt and rugged solid receiver , folding chassis stock , it may cost a little less that Coyote PGW but
What you don't get ,
1.no gurantee
2.no manufacture job
3.no accuracy gurantee
4.spending so much time
5.sometimes a small mistake can be huge
However we know if you like to build a custom rifle as a hobby, I agree ,
I personally like to spend my time reload match bullet and shooting at the range instead of looking for parts online and spending time to build a rifle .
If one day I sell all my rifles and handguns I WILL NEVER SELL MY COYOTE AND TIMBERWOLF ,
I would go with Coyote with no time ,
Price :
if you compare extremely precision rifles with Coyote like TacOps Tango 51 10k$ , Accuracy International 9k$ , M2010 Rem 14k$ or any type of custom build is way more cost than Coyote ,
Shape:
One of the most ###ist rifle ever , so pretty specially on FDE no matter A5 McMillan stock or PGW chassis folding , I have both and I love both , advantage of chassis is easy to carry , the barrel , action and muzzle brake is unique signature Canadian design, the maple leaf stamp made this art even more beautiful .
Accuracy :
A .50 MOA or less rifle accuracy with factory ammo right out of the box is extremely rare.
https://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php/1861136-Extremely-accurate
As an owner of a TacOps, and handling and shooting my fair share of PGW coyotes, they are not in the same class. Nothing really is with a TacOps, Mike R. is an absolute perfectionist and his attention to detail is unrivaled. There's a reason they cost as much as they do, and they hold their value better then any other precision rifle out there, including PGW's. Apples and oranges.
I agree, the PGW coyote has its own ###y signature look. I love the signature fluted barrel (and I usually hate barrel flutes), and the desert camo look is classic. The maple leaf on the action is a nice touch.
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That's very common with competitor shooters. When I run into issues with it is with regards to military category rifles. Let's look at this critically. The main twist rates in use for the 308 have been 1:12, 1:11.25 and 1:10. Most commercial rifles that try and appeal to everyone and try to be exceptionally versatile use the 1:10 twist. Most competitors in F class etc also want those heavier longer projectiles. Makes sense and I can see why those with those backgrounds would make that choice.
Now, let's address those who shoot/collect military style rifles. Or those who want the option of being able to buy off the shelf match ammo and shoot it exceptionally well without reloading. The added benefit is if you are reloading (which I do), then you simply load up your pet load based off the M118LR and away you go. No messing around. No having to worry about seating depth, projectile choices or powders. It's exceptionally easy. 20-24" barrel with that twist rate and appropriate chamber and you are off to the races.
Now why is it so easy with 308 if you go with a military rifle in 308? There are a few reasons. First the militaries around the world have spent millions doing the testing for you. The M118 and M118LR rounds are the basis with the M118LR being the latest and a 175 SMK round. Which twist rate has the US military generally choosen for their 308 rifles to match their sniper ammunition? 1:11.25. Generally in a 20-24" barrel. I could definitely see a 1:10 twist in a 16" barrel but with the 20-24" the 1:11.25 seems to be the perfect match.
Also realize that Federal Gold 168 and 175 are the commercial versions of the military rounds since Federal tested and produces the military ammunition.
Again the reason I prefer not to have the 1:10 twist is that I like having my pet loads work exceptionally well in most of my 308 rifles and I like being able to put off the shelf match ammo into those rifles and have them shoot exceptionally well. I don't want to be messing around with odd ball reloads that only work in that particular rifle. I have wildcat rifles for that.
I do wonder why PGW choose 1:10 for their Coyote. That being said, the Coyote doesn't actually serve as a military rifle in the Canadian or US military. The rifles that do in 308 have a 1:11.25 twist rates. Which makes me wonder if they would change the twist rate if winning a Military contract as you have now significantly narrowed the type of ammunition being used in your product.
Another example of the 1:10 being more commercially used is with the Armalite AR10 Super SASS. This rifle competed against the SR25 in the M110 competition. There were rumors that it won on many accounts. Who knows. However I will say that the SR25 was using Remington 5R barrels during that competition and was praised for it's accuracy. The AR10 SASS was also using a 1:11.25 twist barrel and was also very accurate. Interestingly enough the Canadian fielded Armalite AR10t used by the snipers' spotters also used a Lothar Walther barrel in 1:11.25. I can tell you right now that those rifles are tack drivers with 175 M118LR spec loaded ammunition. Now interestingly enough the Armalite AR10 Super SASS sold to the public comes with a 1:10 twist barrel as does the AR10 target rifle. Strangely enough these AR10 rifles sold commercially with 1:10 twist barrels don't seem to shoot anywhere near as well as the ones I have shot with the military specd barrels. Could also be chambers etc, plus having to reload to find the perfect round since as above the current off the shelf match ammo is designed for the military barrelled rifle and not the commercial versions.
Anyways. I tend to favour the 1:11.25 twist for my use for the above reasons. Mainly because it's easy thanks to the extensive testing done by the US military and the ammunition sold off the shelf as match grade being designed for those specs. Again I have to wonder if the Coyote was used in a Canadian or US military contract if it would in fact come in a 1:11.25 twist.
Frankly the nearest competitor to the PGW Coyote is the Cadex Guardian CX-30 in 308. It uses a 20 or 24" 1:11.25 twist barrel. Haven't shot mine yet so I can't confirm how it shoots. But others have stated they are tack drivers. The Cadex came out a fair amount after the Coyote. Owning one, I can tell you that it appears it was designed for the possibility of military contracts. It's a nice rifle.
I'm just glad others here have reported that the 175 SMK shoots exceptionally well with the Coyote and 1:10 twist. That hasn't been my experience with other 1:10 twist barrels. At least not without reloading.
I've shot 5 of the 5R rifles. Mine and a number of friends who also own them. Crank down the action to 65 and throw in some 168 federal gold. Mine shoots sub .4 moa with ease. My first 5 round group centre to centre at 100 was .357. That was with a stock rifle including trigger settings. The others I have shot weren't as good as mine, but they were sub .5 moa rifles. Again with factory ammunition. I can only say this with the older around 2007-2009 rifles. I haven't shot any of the gen2 etc. The older ones the barrel very likely came off the M24 production since that was the only machinery they had at the time that did 5R and 1:11.25. Now they sell a number of commercial rifles with this. I have heard good reports though from others even with the newer ones. These rifles were really one of the worst kept secrets on the internet. In 308 they have been universally praised as being tack drivers. Their reputation from my experience was well earned. I can't say the same with Remington's other products. But these ones were special, contrary to what many who have never owned one often state.
That being said, they are a Remington 700 rifle. Nice, but not in the same league as these other rifles.
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Let’s just say that if you want a rifle that can function in the dirt grit and cold and your not worried about boutique options and just want a rifle that works and is made in canada pgw coyote is great option. I have seen them do very well in many very different competitions along with a reputation for reliability what else could a person want, as for the money part have seen some pretty expensive remington 700 rifles, or you can buy once and cry once and be done.
Buy once, cry once is what we tell ourselves to justify that expensive firearm. It never ends at just one. It’s like buying an extra upper for an AR because you can swap them. Eventually you use the extra upper to justify a new lower. I suspect someone with a 67 trader rating knows this..
I don’t bother trying to fool myself anymore. I just want one. True about how you can end up with paying an awful lot for that Remington if you customize it. Often less expensive in the long run to get the rifle you really wanted out of the box in the first place.
TacOps .308's come standard with shorter barrels and a 1:10 twist. Mine is a 22" 1:10 and slings the 168's and 175's just fine.
TacOps has built rifles for over 800 alphabet agencies, that's a lot of 1:10 twist rifles in service with .gov.
These rifles are designed to shoot factory ammo, and have a 1/4 MOA guarantee with FGMM 168 ammo. The twist rate certainly isn't hurting accuracy to any degree.
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I got sub MOA with 175gr 43gr 4064 lapua brass M210 on my USGI standard weight twist rate 1:12 barrel TRW 1963 , LRB M25
I got sub MOA with M21A5 Crazy Horse medium barrel 1:10 that designed for M118LR , 147Gr boat tail 44 gr 4895 lapua brass M210
Both rifles M14 platform semi auto , and made for military and still.in service and the 1:12 got good result with 175gr 22 inch and 1:10 for sub moa with NATO bullet weight 22 inch , M14EBR program US military they put new 22 inch barrel 1:10 twist in any M14 rifle that didn't have a good barrel condition. And the numbers are over thousands, these are not just service rifles adopted as SDM , DMR or Sniper rifles , Estonian Army the same thing all new barrels are 1 :10 same platform ,Lithuania army as well, Israel defense adopted M14 as sniper rifle long time ago and they did the same thing.
The government's contractors or manufacturers are building rifles for wars , design a rifle can shoot accurate with all type of ammo in battlefield ( the same catridge ),is not a good example to prove M24 5R barrel twist as a precision sniper weapon.
No matter what twist rate you have in compare 1:10 or 1:11 , you can't feel the difference, you have more option to play with reloading components to get the same result of each twist rate .
I disagree if you see the twist rate of barrel a reason to ignore or reject a precision rifle.
That is ok if you see the price tag , I personally like black Bentley and it is ok if you like green toyota Corolla,
The Remington inc main goal is production line and quality check is one of the process , what I see from PGW the main work is accuracy and quality control then production line , that is why is more expensive ,
If you see a rifle with 1500$ can shoot 1 MOA you can not say so 3000$ can shoot .5 MOA and 6000$ can shoot .25 mOA , I disagree with that, Like I said price can not handle the accuracy and you can't expect " my custom Rem 700 5R cost 2600$ and shoots .4 MOA so PGW with 6800$ must shoot .1 MOA "
One more facts each rifle shoots different regardless of barrel twist , length, weight , brand and model.
I got sub MOA with M21A5 Crazy Horse medium barrel 1:10 that designed for M118LR , 147Gr boat tail 44 gr 4895 lapua brass M210
Both rifles M14 platform semi auto , and made for military and still.in service and the 1:12 got good result with 175gr 22 inch and 1:10 for sub moa with NATO bullet weight 22 inch , M14EBR program US military they put new 22 inch barrel 1:10 twist in any M14 rifle that didn't have a good barrel condition. And the numbers are over thousands, these are not just service rifles adopted as SDM , DMR or Sniper rifles , Estonian Army the same thing all new barrels are 1 :10 same platform ,Lithuania army as well, Israel defense adopted M14 as sniper rifle long time ago and they did the same thing.
The government's contractors or manufacturers are building rifles for wars , design a rifle can shoot accurate with all type of ammo in battlefield ( the same catridge ),is not a good example to prove M24 5R barrel twist as a precision sniper weapon.
No matter what twist rate you have in compare 1:10 or 1:11 , you can't feel the difference, you have more option to play with reloading components to get the same result of each twist rate .
I disagree if you see the twist rate of barrel a reason to ignore or reject a precision rifle.
That is ok if you see the price tag , I personally like black Bentley and it is ok if you like green toyota Corolla,
The Remington inc main goal is production line and quality check is one of the process , what I see from PGW the main work is accuracy and quality control then production line , that is why is more expensive ,
If you see a rifle with 1500$ can shoot 1 MOA you can not say so 3000$ can shoot .5 MOA and 6000$ can shoot .25 mOA , I disagree with that, Like I said price can not handle the accuracy and you can't expect " my custom Rem 700 5R cost 2600$ and shoots .4 MOA so PGW with 6800$ must shoot .1 MOA "
One more facts each rifle shoots different regardless of barrel twist , length, weight , brand and model.
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Can you share you TacOps pic pls?
Can you share the result and opinion?
I spoke with Mike 4 years ago regarding a Tago 51 order ,
Comparing a Coyote action to a Remington 700.....
On the topic of barrel twist. You can be under twisted, say shooting 200's out of a 12 twist, you might pull it off in high altitude summer, but dense winter air will most likely cause instability and tumbling. If you are grossly over twisted, and shooting fast, light bullets, they can come apart, but not happening in .308. Over twisted can also cause a gyroscopic type effect where the bullet nose keeps pointing 'up' when it starts on its decent to the target, think of the Space Shuttle coming in for a landing.
Going slightly over twisted isn't going to be noticeable, with the normal bullet weights in .308, I've shot 190 MK's in the winter out of a 12 twist 700 Varmint back in the mid 90's, it was probably on the edge of stability. We've tested subsonic Lapua ammo out of our 1-10 barrels and they work fine, out of an 11.25, not so much.
In about 1996, I used to shoot a 6mm-284, it was a 7 twist barrel and I shot the 107 MK at 3200. Ross and I got invited to the Precision Shooting magazine 'Prairie Dog Conference' and they capped us at 100gr bullets. I worked up a load with 70 gr Nosler BT's that were well over 4000fps. The rifle shot sub 1/2 moa at 300 yards with the 107's, and it also shot the 70gr bullets into sub 1/2 moa at the same distance. So having a rifle tuned for a heavy bullet and shooting a light one at probably double the twist required, the 70's would probably be quite happy at 1/14, caused no issues. A huge change in bullet weight, and a dramatic difference in twist, basically 100% over spun. If you look at the jump from 1-11 to 1-10, you're only a 10% 'over spin' which is nothing.
Same goes for my current .223, 1-8 barrel loves 77 and 80 grain bullets, shoots zippy 55's just fine. Try and shoot 69 gr or 62 gr SS109 bullets out of my 1-12 .223 and it's a shotgun.
A slight over twist is not a problem, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise.
On the topic of barrel twist. You can be under twisted, say shooting 200's out of a 12 twist, you might pull it off in high altitude summer, but dense winter air will most likely cause instability and tumbling. If you are grossly over twisted, and shooting fast, light bullets, they can come apart, but not happening in .308. Over twisted can also cause a gyroscopic type effect where the bullet nose keeps pointing 'up' when it starts on its decent to the target, think of the Space Shuttle coming in for a landing.
Going slightly over twisted isn't going to be noticeable, with the normal bullet weights in .308, I've shot 190 MK's in the winter out of a 12 twist 700 Varmint back in the mid 90's, it was probably on the edge of stability. We've tested subsonic Lapua ammo out of our 1-10 barrels and they work fine, out of an 11.25, not so much.
In about 1996, I used to shoot a 6mm-284, it was a 7 twist barrel and I shot the 107 MK at 3200. Ross and I got invited to the Precision Shooting magazine 'Prairie Dog Conference' and they capped us at 100gr bullets. I worked up a load with 70 gr Nosler BT's that were well over 4000fps. The rifle shot sub 1/2 moa at 300 yards with the 107's, and it also shot the 70gr bullets into sub 1/2 moa at the same distance. So having a rifle tuned for a heavy bullet and shooting a light one at probably double the twist required, the 70's would probably be quite happy at 1/14, caused no issues. A huge change in bullet weight, and a dramatic difference in twist, basically 100% over spun. If you look at the jump from 1-11 to 1-10, you're only a 10% 'over spin' which is nothing.
Same goes for my current .223, 1-8 barrel loves 77 and 80 grain bullets, shoots zippy 55's just fine. Try and shoot 69 gr or 62 gr SS109 bullets out of my 1-12 .223 and it's a shotgun.
A slight over twist is not a problem, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise.
I'll dig through my phone and find some pics, will have to upload them to a photo hosting site since CGN is operating on forum software from the previous century. I have an X-Ray 51 with Surgeon DBM.
The attention to detail is magnificent. Every single screw/Allen head on the anschutz rail is timed perfectly to one another. The barrel engraving is chiseled by hand. Every single metal edge is radiused to smooth any edges out. The Birdsong anti-reflective finish is applied to every exterior metal component of the rifle, including, cheek rest adjustment thumbweel, base and scope rings, which is a beautiful finish (the green doesn't photograph well, looks much better in person). The R700 action is completely reworked - tried and blueprinted, mud gutters machined in to increase reliability in adverse conditions, large bolt knob for easy manipulation. There's many other things that get done to the action as well - it's far beyond any R700 action and it shows in form and function. The chamber is cut with a properietary reamer specific to shooting the FGMM 168's, which is one part to getting the 1/4 MOA guaranteed accurcy. The stock texturing is a really nice touch, love the grip and feel it provides.
I've handled and shot a lot of high end rifles. PGW coyotes, AI's, DTA's, Barret MRAD, GAP's, and a plethora of high end customs. Nothing rivals a TacOps in attention to detail, it's a rifle with no peers.
That rifle was designed for police use. Frankly I've seen large agencies still using 1:12 twist barrels. Police tend to use 168 SMK with the older military equivalent the M118. Not the M118LR as used more recently by Canada or US military. 175 SMk is the round to use. The 1:11.25 with a 20-26" barrel is optimized for the 173-175 rounds used as precision ammunition for the US military. I have a pet load for 175 smk which is based on the M118LR. My rifles with these military specs shoot that round excpetionally well. I don't bother to reload 168 since it's just as easy to go 175 SMK, plus no worries about the 600 yards limitation of the 168.
Chatrbaz84, the M14 was brought out of mothballs and had used the M852 165 grain ammunition. The M14 was mothballed in about 1999. It was replaced with the M110. Without the hinderance of the M14 rifle's gas system and with the M24 ammunition improvements were made. You are looking at about 2002 for the M118LR ammunition which is the modern accuracy load and is a 175 SMK. When brought out of retirement they were shooting M118LR ammunition and it had to be downgraded as the higher velocities in the Iraqi/ Afghanistan heat was bending op roads in the M14 (designated M25). The M24 and SR25 had no such problems. However now the ammunition had to work in all three platforms.
The current 175 SMK load or military precision rifles is Federal match primer, Sierra 175 grain Matchking and 41.75 grains of IMR 4064 powder. Sound familiar? I actually base my 175 SMK reload on the slightly hotter older M118LR round as I am shooting from AR308 rifles and bolt, but not the M14. Even then I would use this round in the M14 as I'm not experiencing desert conditions heat. Oh and the M25 ie M14 DMR2 was fielded with a 1:11.25 twist barrel. The barrel has changed over time to reflect the issued ammunition and it's purpose.
Will a 1:10 twist or even a 1:12 work? Absolutely. There are many examples of this. That being said, you are dealing with variables. The shooters worst enemy. Even more so for reloaders. Again, the military has done the homework for you and invested millions into doing so. It's changed over the years to reflect their current ammunition, barrel lengths etc. Their standard for the 175 SMK M118LR round is 1:11.25 twist.
Right now with the 6.5 CM it's received great praise on both the ballistics but also the ease for newer shooters to get shooting single hole groups. Many claim it's more accurate than the 308. That's actually not the case, well at least below 600 metres or so. What the newest wonder cartridge offers are essentially 3 factory match grade reloads in the 140-143 weight. The universal twist rate right now with those three loads is 1:8 twist. Give it 20 years and with the ton of different loads you will see a bunch more twist rates. This conversation will show up on forums as to which is best. Likely you will get the same sorts of answers. However, know that with only a 140-143 range as fairly standard that there is a standard twist rate. With the 308 it's the same thing. Right now with 175 SMK rounds being standard military issue precision ammunition, the 1:11.25 twist rate has been the standard. With current semi auto 308 precision rifles in military service,this remains the same. Shorter barrel lengths, different ammunition loads etc all play a factor in this.
I am looking at a very narrow ammunition range. I'm looking for the barrel to match the ammunition, rather than having to try and match the ammunition to the barrel. A concept that is very foreign to most reloaders and competition shooters. But is the staple for military issued precision rifles. This is what I'm looking for.
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To each their own. I've shot my 168's out to 1,100-1200 yards successfully on numerous occasions.
There is no 600 yard "wall" with the 168's, that's an old myth that's continually spread by people who apparently have no experience shooting 168's at distance. That dogma is 20+ years old.
1:10 shoots 175's excellent as well in my experience.
