Another Bullpup thread: 10-22

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22Short_Improved

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I do not want to hijack a thread started by Greentips, so I have to ask this here again:
How legal would be a bullpup 10-22?
A member here on this site has/had a legal one. I know he was serious when referring to this gun and he wouldn’t say that unless he was absolutely sure that was legal. In the past he showed me tons of amazing and cool guns that at first sight I was absolutely sure they were illegal, but he said they were not and he always proved to be right in the end. But a 10-22 bullpup? I didn’t see that gun yet and I don’t know details about the legal foundation of this gun. That’s why I’m asking here, what do you think?
I would really like to have a bullpup 10-22.
But how can somebody find out for sure if it’s legal or not before buying? If it’s not legal, then I don’t want to get in trouble. Lately CFC answers questions in a very anti-gun manner, so I didn’t bothered asking them. That is why I’m asking you.
What are the chances that it’s legal and most important, how?

Here are some posts on this subject from the original thread:
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=179350&page=3
CanAm said:
a bullpup 22 stock would be prohib as the stocks alone are prohib. I bullpup with an integral stock is fine, ala the T97.
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Westicle said:
a bullpup .22 stock designed using a proprietary trigger housing built into the stock and non removable would be legal in regards to a 10/22....

basically you would have to design it so that only the upper of the 10/22 was used and that the trigger mech was built into the stock design and so that the rifle could not be fired out of the stock....

correct ??
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CanAm said:
As I see it from dealing with the FRT section, the gun must be of "modular bullpup design". Basically the stock and the receiver must be the same, a la the Tavor, T97, etc.
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22Short_Improved said:
That is very interesting. After reading all the threads about bullpups, I might add that the upper receiver should be new build (as in NOT modified from an original one) and it should not accept a regular 10-22 trigger group.
There we have it. Thanks Westicle!
I wonder if Lector's bullpup was built like that. I just received news that he is on a business trip in Europe. I can't wait to see that bullpup.
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tiriaq said:
In that case, it wouldn't be a 10/22, but a new design.
As far as modular design goes, a lower receiver group containing the ergonomic, fire control and feed components would be modular. Whether or not it would be acceptable to the powers that be is anyone's guess. Such a unit would certainly not be an aftermarket stock into which the complete factory barrelled action is assembled.
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This discussion tends to resurface regularly.
There is a company, Muzzlelite, that produces aftermarket bullpup stocks to fit the Mini-14 and the 10-22.
The extremely well informed folks who drafted our current laws and regulations did not choose to make all bullpup firearms illegal; only some that are specifically named. They did make bullpup stocks prohibited devices, no doubt thinking about the cheap, sleazy Muzzlelite products. It would seem that the intent was to do away with aftermarket bullpup conversion stocks. Since then, there has been an interpretation that the stock for a factory made bullpup firearm is a prohibited device if the barrelled action of the firearm is functional with the stock removed. Research the Walther G22 saga, which is still unresolved. If the ergonomic (handle, grip, part that conatcts the shoulder) portion of the firearm is an integral and functional part of the firearm, such that the barrelled action is inoperative when disassembled, then the firearm and its components are legal. Like the Tavor.
Suppose there was an assembly that incorporated a 10-22 fire control group, feed group, and ergonomic components. When the barrel/receiver group, and lower group are separated, the firearm would not be functional. There would be an upper receiver unit, and a lower receiver unit. Such a 10-22 variant should be legal. Whether the powers-that-be would agree is anyone's guess.
 
Rather than call it a 10-22 bullpup conversion, why not simply build an all new gun in bullpup form?
Using the trigger group and magazine from a 10-22 makes good sense, as there are so many aftermarket parts, but an all new reciever/stock unit would be the way to go.
 
4ifeafq.jpg
:p
 
just to add my 2 cents into this, 80% 10/22 recievers are available on the internet....

nothing says once completed into a complete bullpup style firearm that the reciever has to be called a "10/22" reciever.... as long as you register it and get a new frt entry made for the completed firearm you can call it whatever you want to have engraved on the side....

it is not rocket science to finish off a 10/22 reciever and the great option is you can do it stainless,chromoly or aluminium. check out the tanneryshop(dot)com

there are plenty of ways to do this, but you will have to make the trigger pacakge an integral part of the firearm so that the gun cannot fire without the stock. (you know after thinking a little what is stopping someone from hard mounting the trigger package into an ejection molded fiberglass stock so the trigger package is non removable.... you would just have to drill the holes to be able to remove the trigger pins for cleaning or upgrading, and also have an area for the pins to attach the reciever, you would need to use longer pins so it would look "normal" but I think this idea is easily do-able....)
 
22short improved,
I read your post in the first thread and got your PM...

Poor old me subject of this sh!t again. Oh, well...
I never promised you any bullpup, where did you get that “promise” from?
I should start by answering to your concerns saying that the bullpup I told you about is legal. Full legal.
Does it exist? Yes it does.
Is it a real bullpup? Yes it is a real true bullpup, with the trigger group operated from the remote trigger in the front and everything.
It uses the original receiver and the original trigger group. Legally.
I wouldn’t play with stuf like that unless I know for sure that it’s legal, you know at least that about me, right?
How is it possible to be legal? Why do you care anyway, since as I said, I don’t sell one to you. Why do you need one anyway? So you can plaster CGN with bullpup pics all over like an attention whore and draw undue attention?


Some people here might say it is not legal and it should have after market this and that, special tricks and everything. I’m not going to start to fight anybody in here, but if I remeber correctly, a lot of people said about 10 rnds pistol mags in carbines are illegal. Even I was not convinced until later. I was using pistol mags pinned to 5 in my Kel-Tec carbines untill recently. Finnaly, they proved to be legal. When Dlask brought the shorties on the market, you remember what happened, right? All the “nay” threads and everything, but they proved to be legal. Well, this bullpup is legal too. OK?
I am not asking for acceptance of this legal bullpup here, and I’m not going to go thru the same sh!t as in the Type 97 thread. If you guys don’t believe it’s legal, then, mods, please edit my post or lock this thread, for what I care.

PS Oh, BTW, it’s 10/22, not 10-22;)
 
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I think we should quit using the term "bullpup" and rename these firearms to something like "shortfuzzypup". Then the RCMP and CFC would be confused and have no choice but to legalize them all.
 
I am sorry if I pissed you off because you did not deserve that, dr Lector:(
What I did was asking the CGN'ers a couple of questions because what you told me long time ago about this bullpup sounds so incredible for me at least.
I said to you that I am overly interested in this, and now I am even more than before because you said it takes a regular 10-22 (OK, 10/22 :D)
It uses the original receiver and the original trigger group. Legally.
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All right, you won't sell me one. That's OK. So, without the intention of atracting undue attention or pissing you off again, are there any chances that the thing you were talking about would become available for the large public one day ??
 
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like total said build a stock with a built in recever i have thought of a couple that you might be able to do with it how ever drop in kits won't do since they are prohib the logic is exelent verbal amunition to use against vulcans apparintly it's highly lethal
 
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