Double Action Snubby

[calmex]

Please post pictures of ranges where snubbies have been shot.

I will do that gladly, however (one more chance, here) I must warn you: this is a very large Range, with many different facets. Practical Pistol and regular Pistol (snubbies definitely shot there), .22 Pistol silhouette (22 bays! And we may have fired a .38 Special snubby or two on that range as well -- heck, I know we did!), Full-size Rifle Metal Silhouette out to 500 yards (I was there the day that Erika Ramirez decided to try a 200 yard chicken with her Model 36 snubby. All the Mex guys laughed but when her 4th shot dinged a chicken, they stopped laughing. They sort of treated Erika with "hands off respect" after that. She was one of the best "standing group shooters" I have ever seen.)

Trap ranges. Live pigeon ranges. Live pigeon is what it sounds like. It always amazed me that the guy throwing the birds stands out in front of the shooters. You would never get me to do that. "Do you think this is safe?" a Gringo guest once asked me as we spectated.

"No," I replied, "but neither is bullfighting, something I know a bit about. I am not here to try to change it, and neither are you. Anyway, they would not listen to me if I tried. What I can change is the 'shooting and drinking and drinking and shooting' culture on the Pistol Ranges and that is about it, because they will listen to me over there."

Live pigeon. Self-explanatory.

When a real Mexican Rifle Silhouette shoot match is put on, the finalists shoot the "live goat". They take a goat -- or maybe a lamb -- and leash it onto a wire running along about 200 yards out at the 300 yard point. A piece of chile Serrano is stuck into it's backside and off it runs. Then the finalists bang away at it. If you shoot it stopped (which can happen if the chile falls out) you are fined. A solid "kill shot" while it is running means the lamb will be butchered and barbequed and the shooter making the "kill shot" will host the Club BBQ, which are usually drunken gala affairs. I have attended a few. But really: do you want to see that?

Trap ranges, rest areas, BBQ pits, the Club house and bar.....there is a lot going on out there.

This is a Pandora's box. Once you cross that border, you are not in Kansas anymore. Yes, they are shooters. But it's like a journey into the Klingon Empire. Just checking here, because people that think I need sensitivity training are truly innocent, they simply are unaware of what goes on out there sometimes. And this is just a big, civilian gunrange.

 

[Sharps '74]

Heavy loads/heavy bullets in a snub is a combination that just does not compute in the real world. They smart in the hand and beat up the gun.

Like Cooper said:

"A gun fight is not won by the first round fired or the number of rounds fired, but by the first round that finds the intended mark."

That seems to indicate control is better than flash or blast.

I've had occasion to shoot a Derringer in .45 Long Colt. Memorable. Effective at close range? Undoubtedly, but a well placed .38 S&W hit from my Great Western Arms original sized Derringer would likely do the job as well.

 

[calmex]

Hmmm, they won't let my video play. Will have to fix that when I get home from work. Or perhaps, it is simply too gritty for them.

 

[old303]

Too difficult to 'splain with words ....

Get some speed loaders and dummy rds. See what works for you. Or watch any number of videos on the net.

I've been feeding in the speedloader right-handed while ejecting and controlling the cylinder with my left for probably too many years now to switch, but thanks.

 

[Sharps '74]

It takes three weeks to break an old habit and ingrain a new muscle memory. How long do you intend to live .... ?

We broke a lot of LEO shooters of the "PPC Dump" by tossing them out of matches. They learned. As for those that didn't and never came back - meh.

They can go to Mexico or shoot on 'Police Only' ranges.

 

[Ganderite]

I've been feeding in the speedloader right-handed while ejecting and controlling the cylinder with my left for probably too many years now to switch, but thanks.

That is the way I was trained to do it when I shot PPC.

 

[geologist]

WRT the Mexican goat shooting...........

We were in Colombia and were shooting with the federal police, out in the country.

We got to shoot Galils, some pistols and the highlights were the South African GPMG and 6 shot 40mm grenade launcher.

My Canadian buddy wanted to buy a local cow and then frag it with the grenade launcher. I and the Colombians didn't think that was a great idea and vetoed it..............

 

[Sharps '74]

That is the way I was trained to do it when I shot PPC.

Have you ever tried reloading a revolver with your left hand? How do you reload a semi-auto?

I've often wondered .... how does a lefty reload a revolver?

I would transfer the gun to my right hand, open the cylinder latch with my right thumb, push the cylinder out with my left fingers, eject the cases with my left hand and reload with my left hand.

If a lefty can do it, why not a righty .... ?

 

[calmex]

I'm right-handed but sufficiently ambidextrous for most practical (shooting) purposes.

With a 1911 it makes eminent sense that the mag release button is under my right thumb and I feed in a new mag with my left hand and keep going.

With a DA revolver there are the three extra steps (after the corresponding release) of swinging the cylinder out, pushing the ejector rod back, and swinging the cylinder back (after inserting the new rounds, which corresponds to the 1911 mag insertion). If I was going for the new ammo with my left hand, I could see pushing the cylinder open with my right index finger but I'm stuck on how the spent brass gets ejected; I could either skooch the revolver back in my right hand to get to the rod (and then have to re-establish my grip after, and I dislike the lack of positive control) or wait for my left hand to get there and bop it back before going to the other end of the cylinder with the reload, or even do a left-hand eject before reaching for the reload off my belt (while the right hand could have already had the reload in hand). How do you handle that part? Which hand gets to the ejector at what point?

In 1980 or '81 Jeff Cooper wrote a blurb outside of his "Cooper's Corner" of American Handgunner titled "Shooting El Presidente". In the article he described the course of fire and had auto-wind photos of a guy named Hans Candolfi shooting a 4-inch Model 19 and using H.K.S. speedloaders. Mr. Candolfi drew from under a light jacket and fired his first six, reloaded by pushing the cylinder release with his right thumb and pushing out the cylinder with his right index finger at which point he punched out the empties using his left hand. He then reached (left hand) for his speedloader which he used to insert the bullets, dropped the loader and closed the cylinder and then fired his last six shots. The time, if I remember correctly, was sort of astounding --both at the time, and now. Somewhere in the 6.8 to 7.8 second range, I no longer remember exactly which. I do remember thinking at the time that this, if correct, was amazing.

Since then, on fantastic days and "one-off" performances I have been able to shoot the odd El Prez with a revolver in the 7.7 second range and up -- and this not drawn from concealed. I suppose if I worked on nothing else, I could turn in a great sub-7.0 time in the high 6's, but why? Cooper himself said that practicing El Presidente to the point of overkill destroyed the course's value as a training device. So you make a trick of it? So what? Surviving the Running of the Bulls and then staying relatively sober enough at the "after parties" will get you more nooky than any score on El Prez will ever get you and it isn't as much work. (It's just not as safe. But the rewards....)

I think either reload method -- keeping the gun in your shooting hand or switching off -- is fine and I don't feel there is a big speed difference. If there was, Miculek would be using the fastest method and I remember hearing him say somewhere that he doesn't feel it makes a difference. Whatever you are comfortable with. As to muzzle-control during the reload, again I don't think either method makes much difference. People who have bad muzzle control are naturally going to wave the gun all around. In Mexico, we want you to keep the muzzle more-or-less downrange at all times but during the reload on a revolver with an open cylinder if you point straight up and then straight down nobody is going to say "peep". I can certainly understand that people don't want to be "swept" by the muzzle of the dude reloading right beside them because I don't want it to happen to me either. But a revolver with the cylinder open and pointing at the sky while the cases are punched out is no threat to the shooter on either side nor anyone else for that matter. Pointing off to either side while reloading is unacceptable and quite dangerous with automatics and it isn't tolerated.

I see real common-sense safety rules broken on Mexican Gun Ranges all the time but unless it is in an area of the ranges that I have might some say over what we're doing -- namely the Practical Pistol areas on most of the ranges in Central Mexico -- I tend to be very careful about over-voicing my concerns. If they "tune me out" they will never listen, and Mexicans don't like to be preached to by the Gringos (or people who could pass for one).

As to reloading snubbies, most of us carry Speed Strips instead of speedloaders because they don't "print" as much and are easier to conceal in a pocket. I think I would be positively inept trying to reload a snubby using a Speed Strip while maintaining the revolver in my shooting hand. Transferring the snubby to my left hand allows me to really hold that little revolver and the cylinder solidly in place while I strip off two-two-one from the Strip. For me, the switch-hands method just works better. I don't see a downside to either method, nor do I see an upside. I think it's just whatever works better for the person interested. In the Mexican clinics that I did, I always showed both methods. But if I was going to actually demonstrate a fire-one-shot, reload, fire-one-shot sequence with the time-between-shots being less than 4.5 seconds in front of people, I used the switch-hands method because it was the method I was most practiced and comfortable with.

 

[Sharps '74]

There are always people who can do astounding things that are beyond the pale for most. It all depends on your natural abilities and your willingness to work at mastering the technique.

I've watched guys repeat "El Presidente" until they got the time they were satisfied with. Meaningless, and not the intent Cooper had in mind. I believe he thought it should be shot "cold" as a measure of one's current skill level and competence; a martial arts test.

As for the muzzle control thing, two revolver shooters in my club have recently been turfed at a match or cautioned in practice for muzzle violations. Both use the "transfer to weak hand" reload. Both were on the move laterally, going to the left.

When you think of the biomechanics involved, it is easy to see how that could happen. I went through the same CoF with a revolver and had no problem. That tells me something.

BTW - Ken Kupsch is alive and well, posting on CGN as "kanada kidd", his old CAS alias. I believe that he can be contacted at the "Wild West Shooting Centre".

 

[calmex]

I've watched guys repeat "El Presidente" until they got the time they were satisfied with. Meaningless, and not the intent Cooper had in mind. I believe he thought it should be shot "cold" as a measure of one's current skill level and competence; a martial arts test.

I have read in several different items he published that this was his opinion as well. In fact, I believe he outright stated this in the American Handgunner article on the course.

 

[calmex]

As for the muzzle control thing, two revolver shooters in my club have recently been turfed at a match or cautioned in practice for muzzle violations. Both use the "transfer to weak hand" reload. Both were on the move laterally, going to the left.

When you think of the biomechanics involved, it is easy to see how that could happen. I went through the same CoF with a revolver and had no problem. That tells me something.

Running or moving to the left while reloading a revolver would be hard to do without breaking 90 using the "switch hand" method for a right-hander. You'd really have to twist yourself at the waist amongst other contortions. I would just stand-in-place and reload, I guess, under the rules and lose the time. In a real disturbance, I would not care much about muzzle control during a revolver reload, although I would only move from cover or the open to find better cover, or even to escape. Running or moving to the right would favor the "switch hand" method somewhat more.

Keeping the revolver in one's shooting hand would work with either direction so from that point of view -- even we could say a strictly competition point of view -- it has distinct advantages over the "switch hand" method.

As to that, I would probably not choose to "leave cover" to find better cover without reloading first. I realize that one might be forced to run in the open and try to reload but one must also realize that some situations are unsurviveable. One can simply be "in the wrong place at the wrong time" and although one can choose to resist and "try" to survive, some things just aren't going to always work out for the good guys no matter how great one's gun-handling is. There is only so much one can hope to do with a 5 or 6 shot snubby and a 6 round speedstrip in one's pocket. World Domination is probably off the table, for instance. Surviving a close-range attack by baddies armed with Assault Rifles who have decided to shoot up the Taco Stand you and your wife happen to be eating in because someone they don't like might be eating there is possible if there are only two or three of them and they get close enough to you (and you see them first).

Of course, afterwards, best leave town.

 

[calmex]

BTW - Ken Kupsch is alive and well, posting on CGN as "kanada kidd", his old CAS alias. I believe that he can be contacted at the "Wild West Shooting Centre".

Ken Kupsch and I may have met, or may not have. It was Ken Kulach that I knew quite well. Ken Kupsch, however, did send a set of headsets and a nice red gunbag down to Mexico with a box-load of old IPSC shirts that got collected up around 20 years ago with the help of Murray Gardner and another great friend from Canadian IPSC who decided out of their own hearts to help me out down there by sending what they could collect in a care package or two. If Ken Kupsch should read this, he should know that his red gunbag and set of ear protection went to the Erika Ramirez, mentioned earlier in this thread, and as far as I know she still uses them today.

I believe I got another load of shirts and used gear off some of the IPSC/Manitoba guys as well.

I used to get a bit of a kick, walking around at the big matches in San Miguel or Queretaro, to see all the "IPSC Canada Gold Team" shirts, or "Silver Team" shirts, or what-have-you that got sent down to us as "shootin' shirts" for the guys and girls to use. Sometimes nice embroidered name patches had replaced the original names that were on the shirts. At other times, a Pablo and a Rodrigo would walk by chatting while wearing IPSC Canada shirts with the name Murray (or several others who may or may not want their names mentioned). But I thank you all, both from me and the Mexican shooters you helped along with your kindness to take the time to do it.

These days, times have changed and the people who want their own "shootin' shirts" usually have one made by their home Club, or one sporting the patch I use as my Avatar.

 

[Sharps '74]

Running or moving to the left while reloading a revolver would be hard to do without breaking 90 using the "switch hand" method for a right-hander. You'd really have to twist yourself at the waist amongst other contortions. I would just stand-in-place and reload, I guess, under the rules and lose the time. In a real disturbance, I would not care much about muzzle control during a revolver reload, although I would only move from cover or the open to find better cover, or even to escape. Running or moving to the right would favor the "switch hand" method somewhat more.

Keeping the revolver in one's shooting hand would work with either direction so from that point of view -- even we could say a strictly competition point of view -- it has distinct advantages over the "switch hand" method.

As to that, I would probably not choose to "leave cover" to find better cover without reloading first. I realize that one might be forced to run in the open and try to reload but one must also realize that some situations are unsurviveable. One can simply be "in the wrong place at the wrong time" and although one can choose to resist and "try" to survive, some things just aren't going to always work out for the good guys no matter how great one's gun-handling is. There is only so much one can hope to do with a 5 or 6 shot snubby and a 6 round speedstrip in one's pocket. World Domination is probably off the table, for instance. Surviving a close-range attack by baddies armed with Assault Rifles who have decided to shoot up the Taco Stand you and your wife happen to be eating in because someone they don't like might be eating there is possible if there are only two or three of them and they get close enough to you (and you see them first).

Of course, afterwards, best leave town.

Think about retreating and negotiating walls with an open revolver .....

It's much easier to 'trail' a revolver in your strong hand (assuming you are a 'righty'), going left or right. I see it all the time in our practices. The 'lefties' look very awkward by comparison when retreating around obstacles and walls and going left. Going right presents no problems, gun in either hand.

But we are talking apples & oranges here. Training for the street is different than what is required on ranges in the shooting sports. One method will keep you alive, the other will keep you in the 'game'. I do like the IDPA requirement of reloading behind cover. Used to be in the IPSC game as well one time.

If ever a gun was made for a lefty, it was the Colt SAA! Flick open the loading gate with the right thumb, eject the case with the tight hand, insert the next rd with the right hand and index the cylinder with the right hand. We do this occasionally in Cowboy Action for an 'extra' rd. The tricky part is properly indexing.

Most 'righties' will transfer the gun to their left hand, open the loading gate, eject, reload with the right, index with the left. I'm training myself to keep the gun in my right hand just to be consistent. By the time spring comes. I'll have it down pat.


I know that Murray at one time had a chest of drawers FULL of IPSC hats, T-Shirts and golf shirts dating from all the provincial and national matches. That's a lot of IPSC history. I've got a whack of badges and crests I collected from the one World match I attended at Newport News, Virginia. I intended to mount them on an IPSC target. Just never got around to it.

The African ones are the best and highest quality.

 

[calmex]

To enter the Queretaro Club, you must first pass through the gate-guard station. One does not just "drive on". All gun ranges are over-seen to some degree by the Mexican Army, although Army personel are not usually posted at the ranges. But they can show up at any time. The Clubs are "self policing".

From there, if this is a social visit, you might go to the Club House which will be the big structure you will see to your right hand side after you drive through the reception area.

This is where the Spanish Language IPSC rules were rewritten, at Saturday morning Club breakfasts. The bar -- dating from the 1700's from an old Hacienda -- is visible on the left side of the photo. It is a well-stocked bar, but members are expected to refurbish what they drink. Sadly, mooch that I am, I only ever "accepted" the odd beer or mineral-water invited to me by Members, or the Board of Directors when I was at meetings under their request. And of course, the juice and coffee that go with your (paid by you) Saturday morning breakfast.

The Club House has a T.V. viewing area where members can watch T.V. (for example, Sunday afternoon bullfights in Mexico City) and have a drink and discuss the World situation. Trophies on the walls are real, hunted, mounted and brought to the Club by members who have hunted all over the World. Some very rich people are in the Club. Once, here in Canada, I told the owner of the Canadian Tire Store that I worked at that I would be taking a week off because my children were flying up with the family of a rich friend from Mexico who was inviting us to a week in Whistler. Leaning back in his chair, he smiled and said: "How do you define rich?"

Without even a smile, I retorted in my quiet, dull voice: "Personal Gulfstream."

With that, he leaned back forward in his chair and said: "Oh. Well." Yes. Oh, well. Anyway, there are some really rich people in this Club.

Walking out the back door from the bar -- which is where the person was standing when they took the photo showing the bar on the left-hand side -- you enter into the 3 (1 more under construction) "live pigeon" ranges and spectator seating area for these events. Yes, service from the bar is constant during these events. I have written about the "shooting and drinking and drinking and shooting" that goes on constantly and that I have been able to throttle back until after the guns are put away in the Practical Pistol events. Fine. But I have no "say" in any other events, and so please don't wash your head at me because I am limited in my influence. No other outworlder has any say whatsoever in anything the Mexican Clubs do, so I've at least done my bit to the point which I can. People overly prone to hand-wringing should probably avoid Mexican gun clubs just as a matter of course.

A shot from ground-zero on the pigeon range, looking back to the Club house and the door that takes you straight to the bar and some cool refreshment from the friggin' Sun that never stops.

Do not mistake the "live pigeon" range for the trap and skeet ranges, which are over more to the East. You can just see the side of the Club house in this photo of one of the Trap and Skeet ranges. Those have their own "mini-bars" with restrooms and a refridgerator in each one. Oppulence. And an escape from the friggin' Sun. Or the wife and kids, if that matters.

I should point out that although snubbies have probably not been fired on these ranges, I often was carrying mine while on them. Or more. I was once "summoned" to come and say "hello" to a Mexican Navy General (Admiral?) whose son shot in my Combat League. I walked over wearing my 1911 and walked into the bar to greet him. One of the Board of Director members admonished me for openly wearing the gun in it's crossdraw holster into the bar area. "Is the General upset?" I asked him. He said that the General, on the contrary, appeared most happy to see me. "Then don't worry about it," I told him. "I just came to say hello. I won't be staying." And then I left and got back to shooting.

All around the range are BBQ pits and meeting areas. The range is set up like a top-level Golf Club, except nobody there is interested in hitting a little ball around. It's all about shooting. And the range is constantly expanding. They are around 300+ members right now and I'm told current membership is about 800.00 Cdn. a year for non-voting "you get to come and shoot" memberships.

I don't know how much more of this you want to see, and I frankly don't know where else I would post this anyway. I feel comfortable here in this thread where I first talked about it, and if there is no desire to see more then I will stop. If there is a desire to see more and Ganderite does not feel it is highjacking the thread (because it is his thread), then I have much more in the way of photos and videos. This WILL be the Club, in all probability, where we would have the "Tequila Cup" match, and they are building the facilities to do it. I will throw out just a couple more photos so they are out there in any case:

The .22 rimfire Metal Silhouette Range, runs out to 100 meters.

There are 22 individual firing positions for the .22 rimfire and the targets have an auto-reset built in to each position. I used to send my kids over there with a .22 Conversion unit on my 1911 and let them "play" all afternoon. Those kids never grew up to be Liberals, I'll tell you.

Club House? No. These are the new bathrooms on the Practical Pistol Range! I guess they got tired of us peeing on the backstops and sending the girl shooters over to the bathrooms on the .22 rimfire range. This is the Women's bathroom.

Mexico only recognizes 2 genders, and does not recognize feminism. Sorry Libs. So these are in the Men's room at the new Practical Pistol Range bathroom. This was not even under construction yet when I left in 2016!

Spare Trap throwers just "laying around" in case they need one, kept in a storage room between the trap-and-skeet and Air-Rifle range. The Air-Rifle range was where we first started the Practical Pistol program in 2006 or so on the Queretaro Range when the San Miguel Club lost their range and was in the process of getting a new one. So we moved to Queretaro in the meantime and "corrupted them".

The Pigeon shed. There are 3 of these. Live Pigeon is a "big time" sport in the Mexican Clubs, and Queretaro is the Big-Time center for that game.

...and yes. It really stinks in there.

 

[buckbrush]

good lord what a facility!

 

[calmex]

good lord what a facility!

And the sad part is, that was just scratching the surface. When I first got to Mexico, I felt like I had stepped back in time to like the 1960's or '70's. And yet now, having been back in Canada for 3 1/2 years, I feel in many ways the Mexicans have out-performed much of what the "1st World" has accomplished by just avoiding it all together and going down a different path. Certainly, their ability to copy any good idea and build stuff to last (because, unlike here apparently, some little Politico isn't as likely to just "take it all away" from them with just an swipe of his pen) has impressed me, especially in my later years of living amongst them.

They smashed the Live Pigeon and Metal Chicken game (ending it up with the man-on-man live Goat shoot and festive BBQ afterwards) both right out of the ballpark. Now they are turning their eyes -- slowly, but surely -- towards the practical Pistol game. If they are going to do this, I want to be there running it when they do. Thank God they have to change all those "convection oven" two-person shooting stations over to 5 or 6 person Concrete shooting stations. That will take just enough time for me to be able to get back there before they get any ideas about doing "The Tequila Cup" without me.

This very recent shot (last week) from in front of the cool, centrally located "scoring room" that we use during our Practical Pistol matches looking down towards the Pistol Ranges. You can see the green painted metal of the 1st convection oven 2-place shooting station. Immediately past the scoring room is the roofed over BBQ area we use in the Pistol Matches for awarding prizes and for our Taco Stand dinners. During the week, many members bring their families to "cook out" and maybe shoot some .22 metal chicken or what-have-you. The sun is always shining, and it's always a nice day for a BBQ. The Club is expensive enough that one feels that one should use it. My own kids took for granted that they could come to the Club whenever they wanted (Memberships are for immediate family).

Here's another shot of inside that scoring room there....

...but anyway, in that first shot if you look all the way into the background you can see the first of the "convection oven" shooting stations on the Practical Pistol range #3, and it is still the old 2-place shooting station. In fact, since all the photos just arrived show me "where we are today" on the range I see they have not yet started the conversion of the Pistol Shooting Stations over to the 5 or 6-place stations I requested (which the San Miguel Club is just finishing!) Be that as it may, the Queretaro Club is more "posh" and since both Clubs are vying to be able to be a part of the "Tequila Cup" match, I think San Miguel will be the "practice facility" where everyone borrowing guns can easily go to play -- while the match itself will be in the more posh and oppulent Queretaro facility.

Here is that green metal convection oven shown in the top photo: it is as I left it 3 years and a bit ago. So they have not started the new construction and have been busy building bathrooms. Oh, well. Progress is progress, and I don't want them to get finished too quickly or they might get ideas about going ahead without me. And I agree, Good Lord, what a facility.

 

[Ganderite]

Keep in coming! Maybe our Club Executive will get some ideas.

 

[dan belisle]

And the sad part is, that was just scratching the surface. When I first got to Mexico, I felt like I had stepped back in time to like the 1960's or '70's. And yet now, having been back in Canada for 3 1/2 years, I feel in many ways the Mexicans have out-performed much of what the "1st World" has accomplished by just avoiding it all together and going down a different path. Certainly, their ability to copy any good idea and build stuff to last (because, unlike here apparently, some little Political Toad isn't as likely to just "take it all away" from them with an Order in Council) has impressed me, especially in my later years of living amongst them.

They smashed the Live Pigeon and Metal Chicken game (ending it up with the man-on-man live Goat shoot and festive BBQ afterwards) both right out of the ballpark. Now they are turning their eyes -- slowly, but surely -- towards the practical Pistol game. If they are going to do this, I want to be there running it when they do. Thank God they have to change all those "convection oven" two-person shooting stations over to 5 or 6 person Concrete shooting stations. That will take just enough time for me to be able to get back there before they get any ideas about doing "The Tequila Cup" without me.

This very recent shot (last week) from in front of the cool, centrally located "scoring room" that we use during our Practical Pistol matches looking down towards the Pistol Ranges. You can see the green painted metal of the 1st convection oven 2-place shooting station. Immediately past the scoring room is the roofed over BBQ area we use in the Pistol Matches for awarding prizes and for our Taco Stand dinners. During the week, many members bring their families to "cook out" and maybe shoot some .22 metal chicken or what-have-you. The sun is always shining, and it's always a nice day for a BBQ. The Club is expensive enough that one feels that one should use it. My own kids took for granted that they could come to the Club whenever they wanted (Memberships are for immediate family).

Here's another shot of inside that scoring room there....

...but anyway, in that first shot if you look all the way into the background you can see the first of the "convection oven" shooting stations on the Practical Pistol range #3, and it is still the old 2-place shooting station. In fact, since all the photos just arrived show me "where we are today" on the range I see they have not yet started the conversion of the Pistol Shooting Stations over to the 5 or 6-place stations I requested (which the San Miguel Club is just finishing!) Be that as it may, the Queretaro Club is more "posh" and since both Clubs are vying to be able to be a part of the "Tequila Cup" match, I think San Miguel will be the "practice facility" where everyone borrowing guns can easily go to play -- while the match itself will be in the more posh and oppulent Queretaro facility.

Here is that green metal convection oven shown in the top photo: it is as I left it 3 years and a bit ago. So they have not started the new construction and have been busy building bathrooms. Oh, well. Progress is progress, and I don't want them to get finished too quickly or they might get ideas about going ahead without me. And I agree, Good Lord, what a facility.

I sure wish I had known about these facilities when I worked in Mexico. Very nice. - dan

 

[calmex]

From the air, the 3 Practical Pistol Ranges are on the far North side of the property. This was the land the initially suspicious Board of Directors was willing to let me build the Practical Ranges on. The Club paid for all the work, although Michael French and I had to supervise it all. I have photos somewhere of Michael and I -- back in 2007 and 2008 -- directing the Cement Trucks as to where to dump. The budget was not large as we were barely members and an unknown commodity. The 2-place convection ovens for sun shelters was all I could afford, and that was with the concrete buckshee and all the dirt for the sidewalls and the machinery to put them in buckshee. I had no budget, but all the mandate in the World. As one Canadian Tire Dealer told me once: "Do whatever you want: just don't spend any money."

Early matches proved how well the Practical Shooting was going to work out. Once one of the rich "benefactors" of the Club walked up to a Board of Director guy in front me and asked me if I was getting enough support. Trying to be politically correct, I told him I was. "Because," the rich man said, "I see all the young shooters and sons and daughters of members over here, with him. Make sure he gets what he wants, they are the future of our Club." Support like that made it easy and with the San Miguel Club expanding to 7 place shooting stations -- and the fact that the Big Matches will require more people being able to shoot through more quickly -- the Queretaro Club sees the need to rebuild. The space between the bays will only allow 5 or maybe 6 place shooting stations, and I hope to get a fire lit on those this winter. Or at least, get them to start on Bay 1.

Currently, this is Bay 1, seen from up-range. Bay 1 is the farthest bay from the Club House, the most left-hand bay in the top photo.

And looking downrange from behind the shelter.

Looking downrange from the shelter. The Green wall on the right side is a mover barricade. We use a moveable barricade for the left side.

Another view of the same area downrange.

Many metal targets are used on this range, between the rifle silhouette, .22 silhouette and the Practical Pistol shooting (which use falling plates, Pepper Poppers, Hadji Targets and we supposedly are in the process of making up a set of Pistol Silhouette metal targets). This old building is the welding shop, and a pigeon shed combined. The Club has 5 or 6 fulltime employees. Wages in Mexico are low, and the Club pays about 100.00 dollars a week for a fulltime employee. They get benefits like "tips" at the trap ranges and stuff like that. In the Practical Pistol shooting, the only time I've ever used the employees was to fix metal targets that needed welding but I certainly know them all to see them and always try to maintain a cordial relationship with them.

Bay 1 is where all the "experimental stuff" gets tested. That's why all the Mover Videos are on Bay 1. All the Plate Shooting Tables were on Bay 1. Anything -- any concept -- that is going to be "tested" is built on Bay 1. We built a small "fun house" for a match which was filled with Pepper Poppers, drop out targets activated by the heavy, fall-down Hadji Targets, and No-Shoots which were designated by NRA Action Targets as opposed to the IPSC Classic Amoeba shaped Targets. Then we "product tested" it. This was a video shot by one of the guys as I ran through the product testing. It wasn't a match. It was just us "screwing around". Yes, those are smokey loads. We were just getting into powder coating at that time, and since it was going to be a "Big Boy" match, those loads would have been the Lee 160 grain SWC-TL at about 1,280 fps. Smokey. But it was all built -- and then later torn down -- on Bay 1.

Don Ramon built our first Hadji in the Welding Shop. We brought photos from the 2013 Police Nationals in Mexico where we first saw them used and realized their potential. The first ones were not adjustable for drop, and so you had to hit it hard. The guys and the girls in the "tink tink" crowd (I'm sure you know the type) -- the ones that shoot factory loaded .380 ACP guns and run around playing run-'n-gun -- could shoot one all day and never drop it. Don Ramon's a nice guy, but his photo-face is always a bit of a sneer. That's just him being him. This is the type of example where I actually employed the Club employees, as opposed to having them actually out there working under-the-sun as we throw matches. I use the competitors themselves for that work, and I also work myself. (Although as I stated earlier, now in my 60's, I tend to use a stunt-double for any heavy-lifting or dancing scenes. Hand-shaking and girl-kissing I insist on doing myself, to not lose audience involvement.)

Later Hadji's were elaborate, with set-screws to adjust the drop. But there are still a lot of the early Hadji's around, and we use them for the "Big Boy" games to ensure nobody is squibbing. It keeps the "tink tink" crowd away.