Judging by the OP its not about wounded animals, its about technology creep.
BC Proposal to BAN Scopes on Crossbows
- Thread starter IronNoggin
- Start date
Judging by the OP its not about wounded animals, its about technology creep.
IronNoggin
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
Nope. Actually it is ALL about Elitism and "protecting" your own turf from anyone that might remotely appear as a "threat".
However loosely you wish to interpret the last...
Hunters tossing other hunters under the bus.
Totally Disgraceful IMO.
Nog
canadian hunter312
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Brant County
Actually, I was referring to pin type sights on crossbows. And since you clearly haven't used a crossbow, yes, adding a crossbow scope greatly extends their range by both magnification and mil dots. You can't shoot what you can't see and holdover applies to both bullets and arrows.
You're going to have a tough time convincing me that scopes don't give many hunters the false impression that they can shoot live targets farther than they should simply because they shoot nice groups on paper. That goes for rifles too.
300 fps? What is this, 2005?
My crossbow throws 420 gr arrows at 390 fps, but I still haven't shot a deer past 40 yards even though I shoot fist sized groups at 70 yards.
The rules were made back when 30-40 yards was likely a long shot. With todays bows and scopes many are afraid to shoot the same spot twice on targets at that distance for fear or robin hooding and ruining arrows. Without a scope I wouldn't be able to shoot better groups at 50 yards than most mass produced 22lr's out there.
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Who gets exhausted frst ?
the spank
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
- Location
- Planet Earth Wearing My Tinfoil Hat
They are out there. Got a buddy in Ont that bowhunts and he is on the same rant about scopes on xbows. Says too many guys are continuing to hunt after legal sundown because of a scope on the bow. I said no they are doing that because they are poachers and would do it regardless of equipment so stop blaming the equipment. A few days later he sends a picture of a buck a buddy just took 35 minutes after legal light and he is ranting again about scopes on xbows. I asked did you report him knowing full well he hadn't or wouldn't. So I reiterated once again likely on deaf ears that the problem is the person behind the scope not the scope. I don't think he'll ever get it?!
the reality is the "effective kills" are not what most game management strategies are based on. If that was the case all seasons would be rifle only as they are the most effective tool at killing cleanly. But since the resource isn't infinite they tend to try to provide more options allowing for longer seasons. Which gets the gov't more money.
We all want clean kills, but we all want opportunity also. Gov't wants more opportunities for more people to generate more money. So it's not about clean kills. Many states that used to allow modern muzzleloaders have gone back to primitive weapons only as the killing ability was too effective, and they either would have had to shorten the season or limit the numbers of hunters. Instead they decreased the effectiveness of the tool.
That's just reality......
As for this ban I'm not sure what the motivation is. Sounds like it may be vertical bow hunters complaining about crossbow hunters which is sad if that is the case. But if it is the fact that too many deer are being harvested then a less effective tool might be some of the motivation. Overall its sounds like that really isn't the case though.
I hope for the sake of the crossbow hunters in BC this doesn't pass.
Personally I can't believe there is such a fuss about this but shouldn't be surprised. Same pettiness that is contributing to loss of firearms. I've used both a compound bow and a crossbow to hunt deer. I still have the crossbow and it is scoped. The only real advantage of the scope imo is being able to shoot for about 10 min longer at dusk. A crossbow is not like a rifle in any other way than that you hold it to your shoulder and pull a trigger to fire it. I'd say the range of a crossbow is less than that of a compound. At deer hunting ranges I can shoot just as accurately with the peep sight as with the scope. Mind you mine isn't the latest greatest on the market but I would call your average crossbow (Excalibur Phoenix 175lb draw). The crossbow can fire a bolt quite fast but usually the bolts are lighter than an arrow so the speed drops faster. From experience shooting at deer my personal limit is 30yds and I'd much prefer 25 or less. There are pros and cons to both of course. When you're bundled up and been sitting in the cold for a couple hours in a stand, only having to shoulder the bow and pull a trigger is an advantage. Otherwise I'd give the edge to the compound bow any day. The compound is much quieter and has a longer effective range. If its about unfair advantage to the hunter ban the crossbow and compound bow for hunting. I see this whole issue as petty people pouting in a corner that the other guy isn't playing fair. The more people out enjoying our sport the better chance of it surviving.
IronNoggin
CGN frequent flyer
- Location
- Port Alberni, Vancouver Island
There have been ZERO studies completed to determine that possibility.
Instead, this proposal is based purely upon pettiness, emotion and "We think that..."
Complete horse####.
Nog
This proposal is for hunting; not target shooting or anything else like that. On those grounds the proposal is obviously an idea from the minds of under experienced and frenetic managers.
Look at the nature of a crossbow; the only situation that it is on par or slightly better than a compound is from a well rested position. A tree stand, blind or while stationary.
Try carrying around a crossbow and stalking and you'll soon find out what the real deal is; they're ungainly and awkward to carry. Then there is the process of foot in stirrup; cocking with a rope cocker or wind up; inserting the arrow on the rail; taking aim and shooting. Do you really think that you are going to get very many shots at game walking around? Of course, you can cut some of it out and carry it cocked but a cocked crossbow on your back or on your arm is even more ungainly and awkward; to say nothing of how dangerous it is to carry a crossbow cocked(on your back with a sling). The actions, on the other hand, of nocking an arrow and drawing a compound are much smoother and net you a far greater chance of a shot on game.
These things, crossbows, vibrate and move around a bit while being shot. Keep in mind that they are cocked to 175-275 pound draw weights. Newton has his say while the bolt is still moving down the rail; its not like a rifle where the bullet has left the barrel.
I've always considered them to be inferior tools to archery hunt with compared to a compound; that's my experience with them.
Optics don't help the crossbow move up to the level of a compound in any way.
Look at the nature of a crossbow; the only situation that it is on par or slightly better than a compound is from a well rested position. A tree stand, blind or while stationary.
Try carrying around a crossbow and stalking and you'll soon find out what the real deal is; they're ungainly and awkward to carry. Then there is the process of foot in stirrup; cocking with a rope cocker or wind up; inserting the arrow on the rail; taking aim and shooting. Do you really think that you are going to get very many shots at game walking around? Of course, you can cut some of it out and carry it cocked but a cocked crossbow on your back or on your arm is even more ungainly and awkward; to say nothing of how dangerous it is to carry a crossbow cocked(on your back with a sling). The actions, on the other hand, of nocking an arrow and drawing a compound are much smoother and net you a far greater chance of a shot on game.
These things, crossbows, vibrate and move around a bit while being shot. Keep in mind that they are cocked to 175-275 pound draw weights. Newton has his say while the bolt is still moving down the rail; its not like a rifle where the bullet has left the barrel.
I've always considered them to be inferior tools to archery hunt with compared to a compound; that's my experience with them.
Optics don't help the crossbow move up to the level of a compound in any way.
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About 14 or 15 years ago there was a person who wanted to start a provincial bow-hunting group in BC.
This group did not do well as the originator did not play well with others.
Today that group has been scrubbed from existence on all forms of social media.
The province however was more than happy to place that person on their advisory panel.
As that person hates cross-bows with the passion of a 12th century Pope, and has in the past tried unsuccessfully to ban them from archery seasons altogether, his proposal to ban optical scopes is nothing more than harassment.
This group did not do well as the originator did not play well with others.
Today that group has been scrubbed from existence on all forms of social media.
The province however was more than happy to place that person on their advisory panel.
As that person hates cross-bows with the passion of a 12th century Pope, and has in the past tried unsuccessfully to ban them from archery seasons altogether, his proposal to ban optical scopes is nothing more than harassment.
Hunters who advocate that scopes should not be used on crossbows during archery season should be careful what they wish for.
Lots of hunters who start out the season with archery equipment and are unsuccessful, finish the season with the rifle where their odds of being successful are much better. I am one of them.
If this proposal goes through, it wouldn't be much of a stretch for Fish and Wildlife managers to eventually apply the same logic to rifle hunting. That 4.5X14 Zeiss on top of your 300 win mag Sako is far too much of an edge in the hunter's favor so most of rifle season hence forward will now only be irons with with a caliber/ft lbs energy limitation. So the iron sighted 30/30 is fine but the Accuracy International 338 Lapua with High magnification optics is not except for maybe 3 days at the tail end of the season.
I don't see where this benefits any of us. The finite seasons and rules are already onerous enough without hunters advocating for further restrictions upon themselves. The idea is to get more people (especially non traditional hunters like women, seniors, disabled and young people) involved, not drive them away with endless regulations.
Hunt with what you want to hunt with and don't worry about your neighbour. (Advice to vertical bow hunters)
Lots of hunters who start out the season with archery equipment and are unsuccessful, finish the season with the rifle where their odds of being successful are much better. I am one of them.
If this proposal goes through, it wouldn't be much of a stretch for Fish and Wildlife managers to eventually apply the same logic to rifle hunting. That 4.5X14 Zeiss on top of your 300 win mag Sako is far too much of an edge in the hunter's favor so most of rifle season hence forward will now only be irons with with a caliber/ft lbs energy limitation. So the iron sighted 30/30 is fine but the Accuracy International 338 Lapua with High magnification optics is not except for maybe 3 days at the tail end of the season.
I don't see where this benefits any of us. The finite seasons and rules are already onerous enough without hunters advocating for further restrictions upon themselves. The idea is to get more people (especially non traditional hunters like women, seniors, disabled and young people) involved, not drive them away with endless regulations.
Hunt with what you want to hunt with and don't worry about your neighbour. (Advice to vertical bow hunters)
prairie lover
CGN Regular
- Location
- southern MB
amen
Are the names of the people on the panel listed somewhere?
