The Penultimate Non Registered Magnum

[calmex]

I am in Central Mexico right now as I type this, in fact in Salamanca, Guanajuato. Home to all the action involving the Huachicoleros, the fuel thieves. I lived in Mexico full-time from 1990 until 2016. Right now I am back in Canada for a while, but it is just a while. One of the guns I left in Mexico was the 2nd last Non Registered Magnum. It was presented by Smith and Wesson to (then) Lt. Phil Roettinger, USMC just in time for him to take it to Guadalcanal in the initial invasion. He used it later on Bouganville.

In later life, Phil became the Station Chief for CIA, Latin America. He retired to Central Mexico and we became the best of friends although we were some 40+ years different in ages. But he liked my Ice Cream, and we both ended up with guns registered in Mexico which is not very common for us derned feriners. When Phil died, he left the gun to me.

Just the other day, I stopped by one of my "gun stashes" where I have my guns waiting for my return to Mexico just to make sure this treasure was in the shape I left it in. I placed a February 14, 2019 Mexican Newspaper under her as a backer.

and here is her right side:

Yes, the same shape I left her in. If you have more interest in this firearm, or the story behind the man who owned it, the gun is very well written up on the Smith and Wesson Forum in the U.S. under the title: Penultimate Pre Postwar Magnum is in Mexico!

 

[stickhunter]

What an awesome firearm - thanks for posting about it. I'm reading more about it on the S&W forum. I love firearms with an interesting history --- the fact that it's an S&W in my favourite calibre is just icing on the cake. It sounds like your friend had a very interesting life, and I'm glad that he chose to leave you his revolver.

Addendum: I just read your post about how you met the Phil. I'm sure I'm not the only one who'd enjoy reading it, but don't want to repost it without your permission. What a nice friendship you had with him. Thank you for sharing.

 

[calmex]

I was in San Miguel for the last few days. I took a Taxi up the hill and went by Phil's house -- and it is being torn down! Whoever bought it, probably did not know who Phil had been (CIA Station Chief for Latin America) and all the pies he had stuck his fingers into. I grimaced, but there was nothing I could do about it either. In that house in the early 1990's I saw the Non-Reg. Mag for the first time. With Phil looking on, I pulled through the double-action but did not let it snap a couple of times, and then said: "When you die, I want this one..." or something like that. He died in 2001 while I was up in Canada because my Mother had just had a stroke. When I got back to San Miguel, Phil was already cremated and I thought "Well, that's that." But a month or two later -- I really no longer remember now, but I wrote about it all in the other Forum and I probably remembered much better then because it was at least 10 years ago I first wrote about it -- anyway, Phil's daughter called me up and told me that he had told her that the Magnum was to go to me.

And it is still in good care, waiting for me to return here full-time to care for it again personally. I am glad you appreciate the revolver, as I do. I guarantee you that you would have liked the man himself.

As a point of interest, sitting in the same safe is this nice Reg. Mag with a 7 and something inch barrel (I don't remember exactly now) which belongs to a friend of mine. I think this one is a 1938 model, but my memory is foggy. I wrote up about it at the time in the S&W Forum but have not read back on it. There's lots of neat stuff going on all around me right now, it beggars me to keep up with it all sometimes.

 

[Robertkp32]

I was in San Miguel for the last few days. I took a Taxi up the hill and went by Phil's house -- and it is being torn down! Whoever bought it, probably did not know who Phil had been (CIA Station Chief for Latin America) and all the pies he had stuck his fingers into. I grimaced, but there was nothing I could do about it either. In that house in the early 1990's I saw the Non-Reg. Mag for the first time. With Phil looking on, I pulled through the double-action but did not let it snap a couple of times, and then said: "When you die, I want this one..." or something like that. He died in 2001 while I was up in Canada because my Mother had just had a stroke. When I got back to San Miguel, Phil was already cremated and I thought "Well, that's that." But a month or two later -- I really no longer remember now, but I wrote about it all in the other Forum and I probably remembered much better then because it was at least 10 years ago I first wrote about it -- anyway, Phil's daughter called me up and told me that he had told her that the Magnum was to go to me.

And it is still in good care, waiting for me to return here full-time to care for it again personally. I am glad you appreciate the revolver, as I do. I guarantee you that you would have liked the man himself.

As a point of interest, sitting in the same safe is this nice Reg. Mag with a 7 and something inch barrel (I don't remember exactly now) which belongs to a friend of mine. I think this one is a 1938 model, but my memory is foggy. I wrote up about it at the time in the S&W Forum but have not read back on it. There's lots of neat stuff going on all around me right now, it beggars me to keep up with it all sometimes.

**Image and video linking functions will be enabled after you have contributed more to the forum**

Calmex,

I have been reading your posts with great interest as I lived in Mexico City between 1961 through about 1985. Being a gun aficionado I tried to go shooting whenever possible. My best friend's father was well connected and managed to become a member at the "Deportivo del Estado Mayor Presidencial" (link) where his son and I learned how to shoot from the Mexican Olympic shooting team captain. He taught us on a Colt Woodsman and a Gold Cup .45. As this was also a training facility for bodyguards I was also able to shoot an UZI. It was very fascinating to seen the various types of firearms that the well connected had and would shoot at the club. Of course up until the mid 1970's the .38 Super was still legal and very prevalent (even after the law change too).

Your posts on Mexico are great and reflect the situation very well and accurately.

Of possible interest to you I post the following links to items related to Mexico (i provided links since I cannot post pictures yet) .

This was my fathers Colt DS while we lived in Mexico City.

https://www.coltforum.com/forums/co...ecial-w-letter-wanted-share-ask-question.html

This is of a letter I came across recently in my fathers files. My father was an executive with General Motors, in Mexico, during the 1960's through 1980's. It shows that as a representative of the firm he was responsible for the firearms issued to their internal ("Banking") police. The letter is addressed to the Office of Firearms Registration, Secretariat of National Defense (Mexican military). It is for the registration of the firearms to be issued and lists the items by serial number. It lists some S&W's and then three (3) Colt's and a handful of Ruby's.

https://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt-revolvers/370911-colt-revolvers-mexico.html#post3110769

 

[calmex]

Calmex,

I have been reading your posts with great interest as I lived in Mexico City between 1961 through about 1985. Being a gun aficionado I tried to go shooting whenever possible. My best friend's father was well connected and managed to become a member at the "Deportivo del Estado Mayor Presidencial" (link) where his son and I learned how to shoot from the Mexican Olympic shooting team captain. He taught us on a Colt Woodsman and a Gold Cup .45. As this was also a training facility for bodyguards I was also able to shoot an UZI. It was very fascinating to seen the various types of firearms that the well connected had and would shoot at the club. Of course up until the mid 1970's the .38 Super was still legal and very prevalent (even after the law change too).

Your posts on Mexico are great and reflect the situation very well and accurately.

Of possible interest to you I post the following links to items related to Mexico (i provided links since I cannot post pictures yet) .

This was my fathers Colt DS while we lived in Mexico City.

https://www.coltforum.com/forums/co...ecial-w-letter-wanted-share-ask-question.html

This is of a letter I came across recently in my fathers files. My father was an executive with General Motors, in Mexico, during the 1960's through 1980's. It shows that as a representative of the firm he was responsible for the firearms issued to their internal ("Banking") police. The letter is addressed to the Office of Firearms Registration, Secretariat of National Defense (Mexican military). It is for the registration of the firearms to be issued and lists the items by serial number. It lists some S&W's and then three (3) Colt's and a handful of Ruby's.

https://www.coltforum.com/forums/colt-revolvers/370911-colt-revolvers-mexico.html#post3110769

So nice to make your acquaintance, Robert, or perhaps Roberto. I cannot wait for your photos to become visible so I can see the D/S, a revolver I always have been in love with but do not have one I can call my own.

I myself have been on the range you talk about several times. Once or twice for matches of one sort or another as well as a couple of training clinics I put on for the Mexico City Practical Shooting crowd in the late 1990's or early 2000's, and once training some of bodyguards who at the time worked for a now former President of Mexico. Of course, I retain no photos of that event nor would even feel comfortable to discuss it more than to admit that it may have happened. I once was there, also, at the behest of some Military friends to "discuss" the proliferation of Soviet weaponry coming up from Latin America. Why on Earth I was invited is still beyond my comprehension except perhaps the "powers that be" thought I actually was more than a simple Canadian running an Ice Cream Store in Central Mexico. Whatever, they were wrong, but the steak dinner afterwards was worth the trip. As well as the chance, obviously, to "rub shoulders" with people who wore pretty thick hair-brushes on their shoulders and often appeared in photos in the Mexican press very close to the President.

As you might appreciate from your own experience in Mexico, in the future I will probably maintain a somewhat lower profile than I once did.

 

[Robertkp32]

So nice to make your acquaintance, Robert, or perhaps Roberto. I cannot wait for your photos to become visible so I can see the D/S, a revolver I always have been in love with but do not have one I can call my own.

I myself have been on the range you talk about several times. Once or twice for matches of one sort or another as well as a couple of training clinics I put on for the Mexico City Practical Shooting crowd in the late 1990's or early 2000's, and once training some of bodyguards who at the time worked for a now former President of Mexico. Of course, I retain no photos of that event nor would even feel comfortable to discuss it more than to admit that it may have happened. I once was there, also, at the behest of some Military friends to "discuss" the proliferation of Soviet weaponry coming up from Latin America. Why on Earth I was invited is still beyond my comprehension except perhaps the "powers that be" thought I actually was more than a simple Canadian running an Ice Cream Store in Central Mexico. Whatever, they were wrong, but the steak dinner afterwards was worth the trip. As well as the chance, obviously, to "rub shoulders" with people who wore pretty thick hair-brushes on their shoulders and often appeared in photos in the Mexican press very close to the President.

As you might appreciate from your own experience in Mexico, in the future I will probably maintain a somewhat lower profile than I once did.

Everything about Mexico is fascinating and I still track it and many of my friends who are still there.

Interesting you mention Soviet weaponry coming up from Latin America. A friend of mine (police officer)was doing extensive training as a consultant and we used to talk about what was down there. He saw so much ComBloc weaponry from Central America that he would not believe what was down there had he not seen it.

I will also relate a time back in about 1975-76 or so when a high school friend and I went to the Tepito market so that he could buy a .22lr pistol. Long story short, when we went to the seller's (public housing) apartment nearby he had an armory that was impressive, including a case of fragmentation grenades new in the box and cardboard tubes, which he offered me one for $200.00 US.

The other great experience was when my father took me to the Mendoza factory to buy me a pellet rifle. I was allowed to look at and handle many of Mr. Mendoza's designs that were in the director's office. His UZI like HM3 was really cool.

And yes, low profile is probably the way to go.

 

[calmex]

Everything about Mexico is fascinating and I still track it and many of my friends who are still there.

Interesting you mention Soviet weaponry coming up from Latin America. A friend of mine (police officer)was doing extensive training as a consultant and we used to talk about what was down there. He saw so much ComBloc weaponry from Central America that he would not believe what was down there had he not seen it.

I will also relate a time back in about 1975-76 or so when a high school friend and I went to the Tepito market so that he could buy a .22lr pistol. Long story short, when we went to the seller's (public housing) apartment nearby he had an armory that was impressive, including a case of fragmentation grenades new in the box and cardboard tubes, which he offered me one for $200.00 US.

The other great experience was when my father took me to the Mendoza factory to buy me a pellet rifle. I was allowed to look at and handle many of Mr. Mendoza's designs that were in the director's office. His UZI like HM3 was really cool.

And yes, low profile is probably the way to go.

When I think about it, sometimes, it scares me. But then I remember the numerous times I have had to calm down nervous-nellies right next to me by telling them that "If you think about it too much, you won't be able to do what you have to do" and so now I try to take my own advice. All my wife's relatives live right in the heart of the action, right up to her 94 year old mother. How can I suddenly develop the Buccah syndrome? (You know, the "Buck buck buccah" syndrome? It's highly infectious, by the way.) Better to just suck it up and get on with it.

And the weather in unbelieveable -- as you must know. And the girls are girls, real girls. Not manly girls. And ... ah, what's the use? I know you must "get it", you lived there long enough.

I have seen the HM3 both on display in the DCAM (formerly UCAM -- the Army Store) and in use by Private Bodyguards but have never fired one myself.

 

[Robertkp32]

Cal,

I've been reading your posts and read the one on the S&W forum about Phil Roettinger. Don't know if you have seen this book, but it is a great read. My brothers and I were close friends with Scott's stepson.

https://www.amazon.com/Our-Man-Mexico-Winston-History/dp/0700617906

There is another book but I cannot rectal the name right now.

Many of the names mentioned in those books were people I knew or knew their sons.

 

[Robertkp32]

When I think about it, sometimes, it scares me. But then I remember the numerous times I have had to calm down nervous-nellies right next to me by telling them that "If you think about it too much, you won't be able to do what you have to do" and so now I try to take my own advice. All my wife's relatives live right in the heart of the action, right up to her 94 year old mother. How can I suddenly develop the Buccah syndrome? (You know, the "Buck buck buccah" syndrome? It's highly infectious, by the way.) Better to just suck it up and get on with it.

And the weather in unbelieveable -- as you must know. And the girls are girls, real girls. Not manly girls. And ... ah, what's the use? I know you must "get it", you lived there long enough.

I have seen the HM3 both on display in the DCAM (formerly UCAM -- the Army Store) and in use by Private Bodyguards but have never fired one myself.

Everything you say about mexico is correct and something I can truly relate to.

 

[calmex]

Everything you say about mexico is correct and something I can truly relate to.

Yes, well, I really did it and survived it. So I have a handle on how it is. However frightening, I prefer being there to being here, and I consider "here in Canada" just a job with a small but definite reward at the end of the tunnel, nothing more really. I can't wait to get back there. So I must be careful in what I do and don't say because if one says the wrong thing, down there it can get you killed. Or worse.

You would have been in Mexico City at the time that Gary Jennings wrote "#####a". On the wall of the Museum of Anthropology in Mexico City (a place to which I have led dozens of tours, and have a "20 minute Anthropology Museum" tour that has to rival the "5 minute Louvre")....anyway, up on the wall there when you first come in is the verse Jennings quotes at the beginning of #####a.

You tell me that I must perish
like the flowers that I cherish.
Nothing remaining of my name,
nothing remembered of my fame?
But the gardens I planted are still young--
the songs I sang will still be sung!
Huexotzin
Prince of Texcoco
Ca. 1484

I met Jennings, like so many other people famous or not, in my Helados Santa Clara Ice Cream Store in San Miguel in the early to mid-90's. One other thing he said in one of his later books -- when he was going totally flakey -- was something he credited to Marco Polo: "Because I wanted you to believe me, I told you only half of what I saw."

Anyway, as someone who lived down there for a long time, you should appreciate the nuances of all this. There's things you just can't talk about, and things that you can. Simple as that. Anything that is pretty much Public Domain down there is all fine and dandy, though, and I try to stick to that.

 

[FLHTCUI]

calmes, stay safe and keep your head on a swivel while in country.
Thank you for sharing your bit of history.
Rob

 

[calmex]

Cal,

I've been reading your posts and read the one on the S&W forum about Phil Roettinger. Don't know if you have seen this book, but it is a great read. My brothers and I were close friends with Scott's stepson.

https://www.amazon.com/Our-Man-Mexico-Winston-History/dp/0700617906

There is another book but I cannot rectal the name right now.

Many of the names mentioned in those books were people I knew or knew their sons.

I hate it when someone mentions a book I haven't read that I might actually have to buy, but you have succeeded here! I am working this week and hardly have time for myself and did not have time to check out this book when you first posted about it. Now I have looked it up and MUST read it. Is Phil Roettinger mentioned in the book? I would assume he would have been since he was the Latin America Station Chief, and I have met some of his "alumni" during various things I got myself into down there who mentioned him and sometimes mentioned that they were "showing up just because they knew I had been a friend of his". Either way, I now have to read it. I cannot simply walk away knowing that this is out there.

One of Phil's old contacts, a man who I am always greatly reminded of by the depiction of CIA Bill Stechner on "Narcos: Mexico" once sent me a very old copy of "Dead Aim" by Lee Echols which had some stories of Phil flying in and out of Central American airstrips for handgun shoots between friends. I still have that book in a storage box down in Mexico along with other books I saved for when we return. This book you recommend will make a nice addition to my little library.

 

[Robertkp32]

Cal,


It has been so long since I read it I just don't recall which names were mentioned. I loaned my copy out to a friend who did contract work for the CIA in Mexico in the 50's and 60's and he recognized some names and not others. It seems that they had so many people going through there that not everyone knew of everyone.

I'm still racking my brain to try and remember the other book. It listed a lot of names and many were parents of my friends in high school.

But the Winston Scott book is a great read.

 

[Robertkp32]

Also, not sure if it is still around but there is a book "Lo Negro del Negro Durazo" about the Mexico City Chief of Police under president Portillo from '76 to '82. That too is a fascinating read.