The first rifle for a kid thread - with a twist!

Suther

Suther

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So my daughter is 9, turning 10 just before hunting season next year. I'm picking up a savage Rascal shortly to introduce her to shooting. I will also be looking for a 410 shotgun and a centrefire rifle for her.

Now here's the twist. She's TINY. We're talking less that 4 feet tall, and about 50lbs. I suspect she'll grow a bit before then, but if she gets over 4ft tall and 60lbs by next fall I'd be surprised.

So, with that in mind, is there anything available from the factory that A) will fit her in any way, and B) she'll actually be able to shoot without the recoil being too much? If not factory, what might be a suitable semi-custom option?

I fear she might have to wait until she gets bigger to have her first chance at a deer, but I figured it would not hurt to ask here for ideas. Worst possible scenario she packs the Rascal for any incidental small game, but I'm sure it's every dads dream to take his daughter on her first big game hunt.
 
Geez! She’s tiny!

For a centerfire that is light and doesn’t recoil much, I can only think of a .223. But the length and LOP on a bolt action may still be too much for her. And semis in .223 in NR are either too long or too heavy or both.

Maybe a lever in .357?
 
I would look at a howa mini action or cz527 in 6.5 Grendel. Both are decent little guns with hardly any recoil. I shot two deer at 100 yards this year with mine and they were drt. My brother shot a whitetail at 315yards and had the same ending. It’s a great little cartridge and will be my daughters first hunting rifle.
 
Bare said:
I would look at a howa mini action or cz527 in 6.5 Grendel. Both are decent little guns with hardly any recoil. I shot two deer at 100 yards this year with mine and they were drt. My brother shot a whitetail at 315yards and had the same ending. It’s a great little cartridge and will be my daughters first hunting rifle.
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x2 on the Howa

Or some type of youth size .223
 
In BC you will need to have something bigger than 23 cal to hunt big game with, so 243 Win is going to be your minimum. So the 223 is out.
The 6.5 Grendel is a good suggestion, and you could also look at the 6.8 SPC, the 243 Win or 6MM, or even the 250 Savage.
If you handload, reduced loads open up your options, but there are some factory loads that are made with reduced loads that may work for her.
As for a rifle, there are the youth models offered from Remington, and others, the compact from Ruger, and the Micro's from Browning.
If the stocks are still too large for her, you may need to get a custom stock for it and get it made to fit her now, and then put the factory stock back on when she gets older and bigger.
I believe that CZ offers the 6.5 Grendel in their smallest rifle, the 527, and they are making a youth stock now too. Check with your local CZ dealer to see if they can get you the extra stock.
I think International Shooting Supplies in Surrey is a CZ dealer...see if Scott can special order one for you.
 
kamlooky said:
Go check out Brobee's treads.
He mastered the "teach yer yun'guns tuh shewt".
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Right! I forgot about those!

BlackRam said:
In BC you will need to have something bigger than 23 cal to hunt big game with, so 243 Win is going to be your minimum. So the 223 is out.
The 6.5 Grendel is a good suggestion, and you could also look at the 6.8 SPC, the 243 Win or 6MM, or even the 250 Savage.
If you handload, reduced loads open up your options, but there are some factory loads that are made with reduced loads that may work for her.
As for a rifle, there are the youth models offered from Remington, and others, the compact from Ruger, and the Micro's from Browning.
If the stocks are still too large for her, you may need to get a custom stock for it and get it made to fit her now, and then put the factory stock back on when she gets older and bigger.
I believe that CZ offers the 6.5 Grendel in their smallest rifle, the 527, and they are making a youth stock now too. Check with your local CZ dealer to see if they can get you the extra stock.
I think International Shooting Supplies in Surrey is a CZ dealer...see if Scott can special order one for you.
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223 is perfectly legal in BC, or else Gatehouse is done for! Lol

As for your average youth rifle most companies offer, an inch shorter LOP isn't going to cut it for her. That's the twist of this whole thread. By the time my boys hit 10, it'll probably be as easy as get any youth sized 243 and giver, but my daughter is too small for that.

I was thinking 243 was too much, but I hadn't really considered downloading it. I do reload, that's probably worth looking into. An 80gr pill at something like 2700-2800 fps would probably be perfectly useable and might not tip her right on her ass...
 
Used to be, when did it change?
Haven't looked at that part of the regs in a number of years...since I was behind the counter at a LGS...and I just prefer larger cals for big game...
No matter, if it has changed, then disregard that part of my post. Have fun!
 
383SB said:
She sounds about the size of my 6 year old daughter, 45lb, 3’10 and even the savage rascal is a bit of a stretch for her, she can just shoulder it properly from too long of LOP but it’s ok. Looking at her moms moss berg bantam there’s no way she could fire it comfortably and that suckers tiny. Perhaps the cz 527 youth but I can’t think of anything smaller. My 6.5 Grendel would have me worried about flinch at that size, wouldn’t don243, if people had a kid of that stature standing in front of them right now I think they’d rethink there choices a bit. Gotta remember the top of this kids heads is at your belly button. 223 might be ok, but don’t rush her into a gun that doesn’t fit or kicks to hard, good way to loose a hunting/shooting buddy. My daughter loves her rascal, you can’t go wrong with one. Ps, they make awesome small game hiking guns if you sneak it out when they aren’t looking
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Lol I like that last comment, I already determined that the Rascal would be close to the lightest 22lr one can find to strap to the side of their pack (they're almost half a pound lighter than the Chiappa little badger, only niche items like the Pack Rifle are lighter).

Today I took my daughter and her 7 year old brother into Cabelas (he's practically the same size as her, there isn't an inch of height or a kg in weight difference). They were both able to shoulder the rifle reasonably well. However no centerfire rifle comes anywhere near that short from the factory...

I know most "compact" rifles only knock about an inch off the LOP. I also know I've seen rifles with 2 or even 3 removable spacers that cut the LOP down by a lot more than just an inch... However I can't remember which specific rifles I've seen with that feature. Can anyone help me out?

I totally agree with not rushing her. She's SUPER into it right now (i get hounded constantly by her about wanting to go hunting, she always wants to be involved with game when I bring it home) so I'm a bit worried about anything that might turn her off. Not super worried because of how into it she is, but it's certainly something I think about.
 
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If length of pull is an issue, maybe a semi (AR style) with adjustable stock is an option...but that won’t be cheap. My neighbour put a 6.5 Grendel on an Modern Sporter receiver set and both his girls shoot it no problem...smallest one is about the size of your daughter. Added bonus is less felt recoil with the semi.
 
Look for an H&R Handi rifle in .22 Hornet or .223 and load the 60 grain Partition... it will kill coyotes or deer and it is inexpensive so you don't mind chopping down the stock for your kids... I started all.of my kids and nieces/nephews and quite a few of their friends on the Handi rifle platform... we had a lot of fun with them for many years... still have a couple kicking around. When she grows simple add a new buttstock... you can also do swap barrels.on the platform but that may require fitting... I built dozens of swap barrels sets and custom stocks for Handi rifles.
 
hoytcanon said:
Look for an H&R Handi rifle in .22 Hornet or .223 and load the 60 grain Partition... it will kill coyotes or deer and it is inexpensive so you don't mind chopping down the stock for your kids... I started all.of my kids and nieces/nephews and quite a few of their friends on the Handi rifle platform... we had a lot of fun with them for many years... still have a couple kicking around. When she grows simple add a new buttstock... you can also do swap barrels.on the platform but that may require fitting... I built dozens of swap barrels sets and custom stocks for Handi rifles.
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P.S - I started my kids with .243's and soft loads with the 95 grain Partitions... they were able to handle it with no problem, but they were a little bigger than your peanut.
 
How about a Marlin 336y?

A 30-30 is easy to manage, inexpensive and more than capable. The rifle is easy enough to scope (plus she can work on learning using iron sights). Simple to swap out to a full size stock down the road if required.

Edit:
X-Bolt Micro Midas in 243 would be another good option.
 
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hoytcanon said:
P.S - I started my kids with .243's and soft loads with the 95 grain Partitions... they were able to handle it with no problem, but they were a little bigger than your peanut.
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That's a good suggestion! A handi rifle might be just the ticket. One of those in 223 or 243 with the right hand load aught to work! Too bad they don't make em anymore but that's what the EE is for...

GMC403 said:
How about a Marlin 336y?

A 30-30 is easy to manage, inexpensive and more than capable. The rifle is easy enough to scope (plus she can work on learning using iron sights). Simple to swap out to a full size stock down the road if required.

Edit:
X-Bolt Micro Midas in 243 would be another good option.
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Anything 30cal is going to be too much recoil-wise. 150gr pill at 2400fps is approx. 25% more recoil than a factory 243 load, and I'll be looking at doing reduced loads in the 243 as is (and I don't like the idea of downloading a 30-30 for her due to the trajectory). Micro Midas still has a 12.5" LOP so that would need to be cut down still.
 
hoytcanon said:
Look for an H&R Handi rifle in .22 Hornet or .223 and load the 60 grain Partition... it will kill coyotes or deer and it is inexpensive so you don't mind chopping down the stock for your kids... I started all.of my kids and nieces/nephews and quite a few of their friends on the Handi rifle platform... we had a lot of fun with them for many years... still have a couple kicking around. When she grows simple add a new buttstock... you can also do swap barrels.on the platform but that may require fitting... I built dozens of swap barrels sets and custom stocks for Handi rifles.
Click to expand...

GMC403 said:
How about a Marlin 336y?

A 30-30 is easy to manage, inexpensive and more than capable. The rifle is easy enough to scope (plus she can work on learning using iron sights). Simple to swap out to a full size stock down the road if required.

Edit:
X-Bolt Micro Midas in 243 would be another good option.
Click to expand...

From the sounds of things the OP's daughter may not have the hand size to safely #### and uncock a manually operated hammer. Probably not an issue if dad is going to be in control of things until she shoots. I'd go Howa mini action, and a .223 Remington. A laminated stock would be easy to customize to her. Or perhaps a Remington model 7 or Ruger american compact. There aren't many centerfire cartridges that can be served up in as light and compact of a package with as low of recoil and muzzle blast.
It may not be the worst thing in the world to focus on teaching her the basics and focusing on small game with her .22 for a couple years. I know you want her to get the whole experience and have that passion ignited before teenage distractions get in the way but if she isn't able to shoot a centerfire comfortably it may be rushing things.
I know those that haven't done it will always have misgivings about it but the tiny cartridge is much more capable than given credit for. Yes shot placement is important but it should be with any other cartridge as well. I have never passed a shot with my .223 that I would have taken with my .243 and a bullet of the same construction. Even down loaded a .243 will likely have more muzzle blast than a .223 and that can be a real confidence shaker to some kids.
A savage 10 or axis action is easily restocked and can be rebarreled to cartridges that may meet more of your requirements cost effectively.
 
I can’t remember the OAL or LOP on it but my buddy picked up a break action Chiappa .22/.410 combo, it’s super light and fun to shoot. I remember it being pretty compact, he was having a good time shooting grouse and hares with it. Might be a good option for her or your boy for when you think of getting a .410 as well, it had fiber optic sights on it and was pretty accurate. Was a full choke iirc.
 
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