While I would not reach for a 270 to go for bison, technically it would be legal if you handloaded Woodleigh's 180gr Weldcore PP to any velocity north of 2500 fps. A mid level charge of H4831sc will do 2650 from a 22" 270
nice pics!
what do you think is the most versatile cartridge ever made?
- Thread starter Mr. Friendly
- Start date
While I would not reach for a 270 to go for bison, technically it would be legal if you handloaded Woodleigh's 180gr Weldcore PP to any velocity north of 2500 fps. A mid level charge of H4831sc will do 2650 from a 22" 270
nice pics!
We used to do the coastal hunt for a living before the BC grizzly closure, and I was totally happy with a client opting for .270 / 7 Mag / .30-06 / .300 / .338 / .375 Mag. .270 is the light end but no denying it will work. 7x57 175gr is the lightest round I’ve taken a grizzly with (brown bear to Americans when coastal, same species) and while perfectly lethal it was the least dramatic kill on a heart / lung shot, and it had a long death walk. Not a big deal on a moose, quite a big deal on a grizzly bear you have to follow a hundred or a hundred and fifty yards into the nasty thick stuff they choose to die in. Those touting Corbett and Bell need to remember Bell made head shots exclusively with FMJs on Elephant, and that Tigers are smaller than Grizzlies and Elk and more lightly built.
If I had to choose the ideal coastal grizz / Brown round .300 for the hunter, .375 for the guide. I’ve seen no discernible difference in effectiveness for a hunting shot between the .300 and .375 on Grizzly / brown, but do believe in the .375’s greater ability on bone in a frontal / charge shot or to break a shoulder of a bear running somewhere you don’t want it to go. If I had to choose the lightest round I’d tackle the NA 29 animals with, yea it’d be the .270, and I’d do it happily. However the .270 is illegal in BC for wild bison, so that’s out.
Then since we’re talking the North America 29 big game animals, we have to recognise the elephant in the room; mountain game. For all the noble talk of keeping it sporting and fair to the animal with a 12 gauge, .45-70, .348 Winchester or the like the reality of it to those who know the hunt is you’ll need to be able to make a 400 yard shot one day. Mountain goats in particular will drive this point home, all the comments from East and central Canada seem to be understandably out of touch with the realities of hunting above the tree line on open ice and rock. There’s utterly nothing more sporting than a stalk up terrain that will kill you with a misstep, that takes two full days of all our exertion to get to 375 yards (which looks like 100 yards on a deer in the bush, over open rock) on the billy or ram of the hunter’s dreams.
All this adds up to 7 Mag for me, for the OP’s question.
You need a 175 grain bullet with greater than 2000 ft-lbs of energy at 100 meters for these guys that can weigh what three eastern moose do; check for the 7 Mag.
You need to be able to make a 450 yard shot cleanly on picture 3 & 4 over the terrain birds eyes in pics 5 & 6; check for 7 Mag at 140 grain. The challenge of this hunt isn’t the stalk, it’s surviving and getting to the shot.
You need to be able to anchor this guy at 25 - 250 yards; check for 7 Mag.
AND all this needs to be done with the OP’s stipulation of the minimum possible recoil for the maximum capability; check for 7 Mag, which is extremely similar to a .30-06’s recoil. A .300 will do slightly better at most of this but will recoil more, even without the OP’s criteria I personally like the big 7. If people are basing their opinion on their experience hunting moose, black bear, and deer in regular bush they should give thought to what the breath of this continent holds beyond deer and moose hunting.
Wow beautiful man. I probably will never hunt there but the dream is planted.
Bell preferred brain shots, but also recognized the usefulness of what he referred to as "body shots", and took quite a few elephant with heart/lung shots with the .275. He also took enough other game with the .275 and .256 ( 6.5x53R) to fill a freight train. And while grizzlies may be bigger, I would argue that the big cats are more dangerous.
But overall, I agree with you. The 7x57 is not a particularly fast killer with the old 175 gr. round nose. With a 140 loaded to the top end, it's really no different from a .270. If you're shooting at extreme distances or outsize animals, I agree that bigger is better.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Inside 200 you introduced me to the light, I haven’t admitted it in public yet but you got me reinterested moderate-medium bores again with your .358 and .350. For the record Hoyt’s brought the coolest chamberings I’ve seen afield here when guiding and hunting. This guy is wholly your fault.
My client loner this year was a 7x57 stainless with Partition 140s, was good but falls off a good deal beside the .270 and 7 Mag on mountain goat (long shots). Totally workable however and mild on the shoulder, which helps some folks a good deal with shot placement, which is everything. I’ve only hunted one big cat, did lion on foot over many days of walking him down in the Kalahari. You’d get to 75 yards in thorns, he’d roar to warn you, then reposition before you saw anything but his tracks and you’d start the game all over again. Frankly I felt the tingle but less so than with a Grizzly at the same range in thick stuff. A Grizzly wouldn’t tolerate being pushed like that if it had nowhere to go that you couldn't. Grizzlies get very underrated as we consider them “just bears” and lions and tigers as something far more exotic. Corbett held great respect for brown bears however, and in the same breath his descriptions of Tiger hunting are pretty clear in the significant danger posed which none of us will ever know. In “The Tiger” the Eurasian brown bear is singled out as the only animal a Tiger will avoid. I feel the same way about a Grizzly with a bad attitude as the Tigers do. Respectful.
The vast majority of the time big cats and big bears just want to do cat and bear things. But both can get sideways just when you start to feel comfortable. Fair point the Barnes original was on my mind too when I made the statement, lots of us handload here so can’t rightly rule out the .270 on that point.
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35 years ago when studying Biology, I wrote a paper on North American Black Bear Attacks resulting in a fatality... I studied and cross referenced 80 accounts of fatal bear attacks... that was black bears only... and there have been many fatalities since. In the past two decades there has been a spike in fatal bear attacks.
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
Probably about .0001% as many who have died from taking a leak off a boat. I see where you’re headed here and have all the same books, Tsavo, Kumaon, Wanderings... and note your well considered coming point that a single cat can come up with a continent’s bear tally. Trouble for me is I know people who have been attacked by bears very well, my boss in the day job is one. The Lion PH I hunted with had been charged a couple times as well. They all get my respect, I’d hunt Lion with the same or less trepidation in thick cover as Grizzly. I do agree a rogue big cat is a far more serious thing than a rogue grizzly. But I wouldn’t follow a wounded grizzly into devil’s club with any less care an attention than I’d follow a wounded Leopard.
Inside 200 you introduced me to the light, I haven’t admitted it in public yet but you got me reinterested moderate-medium bores again with your .358 and .350. For the record Hoyt’s brought the coolest chamberings I’ve seen afield here when guiding and hunting. This guy is wholly your fault.
I think you are probably giving me too much credit and underselling your restless and inquisitive nature... but as I have said before... I am quite enamoured with your .375 Kemano cartridge... it really hits a sweet spot within it's niche... and as you know (
), I have a particular attachment to that name and I am not likely to ever forget it.Mentioned the .350 RM, it is a particularly useful and efficient medium bore, I have carried various rifles so chambered while guiding and hunting for more than three decades.
Here is the .350 RM with 250 Partitions compared to the 6.5 RM with 140 Accubonds.
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I'm just here for the pictures. Thanks, Ardent.
I'm with woodlotowner........
but in addition to the usual (ahem) kids and cranks that often show up for the party on here, I am learning a great deal from some voices of experience in this thread.
And who the heck would want to be limited to one cartridge anyways!!!!! (HINT: not me!)
Doug
45/70
I didn’t read through all the posts but a 12ga shotgun is the gun that tamed the west. I’m not a shotgun fan but it’s hard to argue a more versatile gun for everything on the planet.
If it’s just rifles that we are talking about then the 30-06 is what I also would have to agree on.
If it’s just rifles that we are talking about then the 30-06 is what I also would have to agree on.
Thank you lol
Ardent
CGN Ultra frequent flyer
It’s a x57mm length case length but with the shoulder in the .30-06s position. Let’s me fire a standard .30-06 and get a .375 Kemano case after a trim, as I headspaced it for a slight crush on a .30-06. I might have 30 seconds into a case all said and done, which is pleasant. Moves the 260gr Accubond at 2,550fps- which surprisingly is still supersonic at 1,000 yards. And I can shoot it comfortably in a 6 1/2lb rifle unlike my other .375s. Basically it sprouted from my outfitting as I wanted a light to carry rifle that punched above its weight, and went five down in a magazine.
Ardent, that's a neat cartridge.
Ballistics are very similar to what is achieved with the 376 Steyr in the 20" barrel of the Steyr rifles chambered to it (not the Scout rifle).
I have a 21" barrel on mine and am getting 2632 fps with the 260 gr AB. While the recoil is very manageable, it may be more than what the OP was looking for. Sorry, I have never weighed this rifle. But it a pussycat off the bench, and 40 rounds in a session is not hard on a shoulder! Has accounted for elk and bison to date.
Although with the two factory loads offered by Hornady in 225 and 270 gr bullets, both spec'd to 2600 fps out of a 24" barrel,with identical trajectories out to 300 yards, it would be a great one cartridge rifle for North America for those who are not as sensitive to recoil. IIRC it is 2.5" high at 100, on at 200 and 10" low at 300 yards.
While it would definitely drop further at 400 yards than most would care for, knowing its trajectory would not rule that distance out for a practiced rifleman. Not my first choice for sheep and goats, it would probably be preferable to a 416 or 404 used to take dall or stone's sheep as others have done!
Ballistics are very similar to what is achieved with the 376 Steyr in the 20" barrel of the Steyr rifles chambered to it (not the Scout rifle).
I have a 21" barrel on mine and am getting 2632 fps with the 260 gr AB. While the recoil is very manageable, it may be more than what the OP was looking for. Sorry, I have never weighed this rifle. But it a pussycat off the bench, and 40 rounds in a session is not hard on a shoulder! Has accounted for elk and bison to date.
Although with the two factory loads offered by Hornady in 225 and 270 gr bullets, both spec'd to 2600 fps out of a 24" barrel,with identical trajectories out to 300 yards, it would be a great one cartridge rifle for North America for those who are not as sensitive to recoil. IIRC it is 2.5" high at 100, on at 200 and 10" low at 300 yards.
While it would definitely drop further at 400 yards than most would care for, knowing its trajectory would not rule that distance out for a practiced rifleman. Not my first choice for sheep and goats, it would probably be preferable to a 416 or 404 used to take dall or stone's sheep as others have done!
