Antique status and 38 special
- Thread starter Dent2
- Start date
I believe it's ok because several antique Colt SAA are rechambered in 38 special and even 357 magnum and retain antique status. Can these shoot 38 Long Colt? Yes but with so many antique guns in the newer calibers and yet retaining the coveted antique letter one wonders how these are determined to be antique or not.
As with many gun laws. Roll the dice.
Cheers
Moe
As with many gun laws. Roll the dice.
Cheers
Moe
Can a 38LC chamber accept a 38Spl? What the chamber actually is, not what also might fit, is what the Law refers to.
Have yer ducks inna row. Be prepared to support your position. There is no requirement to register your prescribed antiques with the RCMP (which is what you are doing, if you send off to them for a letter) but they have recently adopted a policy of not allowing the deregistration of any newly converted or rechambered pistols unless they started out not being of one of the listed calibers.
Be prepared to support a date or at least, era, of manufacture, and have at least some idea of the differences in the various old cartridges, and the dimensions of those that are, like the Special, not on the 'bad' list.
Would you be able to prove that the thing had been rechambered to .38Sp, and not .38LC?
If it is registered as restricted already, and you want to get it reclassified as antique by changing the caliber, that is no longer an option.
In addition, is there any reason to believe that the current situation with respect to antique handguns is going to continue? Changing the caliber for shooting purposes might be attractive right now, but if the rules change, the value of the piece as an antique collectible is going to drop.
Is the current caliber so awkward to prepare ammunition for that conversion makes sense?
If it is registered as restricted already, and you want to get it reclassified as antique by changing the caliber, that is no longer an option.
In addition, is there any reason to believe that the current situation with respect to antique handguns is going to continue? Changing the caliber for shooting purposes might be attractive right now, but if the rules change, the value of the piece as an antique collectible is going to drop.
Is the current caliber so awkward to prepare ammunition for that conversion makes sense?
I dunno that any kick in the fork that will be got on account of altering a collectible firearm, will in any way compare to the sudden drop in retail value that will come about in the event that they are no longer all able to be shot wherever it is legal to shoot any other non-restricted firearm.
A fella pretty much only need look at the selling prices of a Colt Thunderer, vs. A similar condition Restricted Lightning 1877 model revolvers. Unless the .38LC Lightning is in absolutely pristine condition, you almost have to give those away, while the prescribed antique Thunderer is a pretty saleable commodity.
I suspect, if anything, a LOT of the higher dollar antiques are gonna see some...price corrections.
A reduction by a factor of five seems pretty likely to me.
Depends on the Long Colt I suppose. The base on them is slightly bigger. In reality the Starline brass is likely shortened 38 spl, but it could be argued that 38 spl chamber will not allow a 38 LC to be inserted. Bullet Dia should be a couple thou larger as well.
Yep 38 LC will chamber and fire 38 spl; at least the 92's will. I've 2; one with the tapered cylinder chambers and one that is bored straight through. Likely lock tight in the cyl or crack down the side, but it'll light up 38 spl.
Had not looked up the dimensions...Will a 38LC fit in a standard 38Spl chamber?
If so...Dunno what a fella might do to 'prove' that the rechamber was done.
Just know for sure that Colt themselves converted a PILE of SAA's in the day, and all the ones that were registered as Prescribed Antiques got through the system before they decided to rewrite policy. But Colt used new cylinders, and appropriately marked barrels, so there is little that most could say to suggest that the caliber was not as intended.
The loads that they can withstand, or not...whole 'nuther issue. Personally not a fan of the theory behind "Oh, I'll just load them down to appropriate levels."
As of recent days, if the caliber starts out, not being on the list of 'bad' calibers, the RCMP will still de-register (or more accurately, Register it as a Prescribed Antique) it and send you a letter if you change the Caliber.
I'm of a similar mind as Tiriaq, in that it really isn't that hard to make cases for almost anything out there fit to shoot, and a rechamber does not seem to make much sense if the gun is already in the Prescribed Antique status.
You are thinking about installing a Kirst or Taylor breech ring and cylinder in an original Colt?
I think that you will find that the conversion cylinders will chamber .38Sp, but may be labelled as .38LC because:
they might not accept full length .38Sp cartridges, and,
the manufacturers don't want hot .38Sp loads being used, and,
the C&B barrel is oversize, as you are aware. Either hollow based or heeled bullets must be used to engage the rifling. That gets really close to being a .38LC cartridge.
I have no idea if the RCMP would consider that a Kirst or Taylor kit would void antique status.
I think that you will find that the conversion cylinders will chamber .38Sp, but may be labelled as .38LC because:
they might not accept full length .38Sp cartridges, and,
the manufacturers don't want hot .38Sp loads being used, and,
the C&B barrel is oversize, as you are aware. Either hollow based or heeled bullets must be used to engage the rifling. That gets really close to being a .38LC cartridge.
I have no idea if the RCMP would consider that a Kirst or Taylor kit would void antique status.
This was my feelings as well but thought I would seek some feed back bu those more knowledgeable. The project is purely theoretical at this point as I dont have a suitable donor. I'm leaning towards building a 58 rem instead of a colt, krists price to do a custom 44 special cylinder is not outrageous so that's the way I'm leaning o build a shooter.
This can be done. I have a Colt 1892 revolver made in 1896 that started life in 41lc. I had a 107mm police positive barrel in 38 special left over from another project that fit right on and a Colt 1892 cylinder from a 1904 dated 38 special pistol put on. The cylinders on the 38 special 1892 revolvers differ from the 38lc as there is a built in ring near the end of each chamber in the cylinder, I have examples of both. I had the gun reblued and it looks like a new revolver and fires modern 38 special, I stick to lower power loads.
The original caliber can be easily confirmed by obtaining a Colt letter. My understanding is that a pre antique date (1898) pistol that started life in a no go caliber like 38lc cannot be changed to 38 special or any other caliber to make it antique.
As we do not know the future of antiques I have saved the original 41lc barrel and cylinder in the event I need to change it back. The conversion was really quite easy, I needed the barrel, cylinder and cylinder star. A good 1892 parts gun in 38 special took a long time to find.....
I enjoy shooting mine and taking with me in the bush, with a copy of the antique legislation and self made antique letter. I have been considering selling it but will never be able to replace it, my interest is moving more towards the 45. Calibres these days so who knows, one day it may appear on the EE.
The original caliber can be easily confirmed by obtaining a Colt letter. My understanding is that a pre antique date (1898) pistol that started life in a no go caliber like 38lc cannot be changed to 38 special or any other caliber to make it antique.
As we do not know the future of antiques I have saved the original 41lc barrel and cylinder in the event I need to change it back. The conversion was really quite easy, I needed the barrel, cylinder and cylinder star. A good 1892 parts gun in 38 special took a long time to find.....
I enjoy shooting mine and taking with me in the bush, with a copy of the antique legislation and self made antique letter. I have been considering selling it but will never be able to replace it, my interest is moving more towards the 45. Calibres these days so who knows, one day it may appear on the EE.
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The law or rule on antique center-fire handguns is:
"A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson, 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges."
I don't pretend to understand the rational behind any of these rules. But if you buy a Colt Thunderer made before 1898, which was only ever chambered in 41 Colt, you can rebarrel and rechamber it to 38 Special, and you're good to go. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. And when you're done, you can probably sell it for $ 2500 to $ 5000.
Nitro
"A handgun manufactured before 1898 that is capable of discharging centre-fire cartridges, other than a handgun designed or adapted to discharge 32 Short Colt, 32 Long Colt, 32 Smith and Wesson, 32 Smith and Wesson Long, 32-20 Winchester, 38 Smith and Wesson, 38 Short Colt, 38 Long Colt, 38-40 Winchester, 44-40 Winchester, or 45 Colt cartridges."
I don't pretend to understand the rational behind any of these rules. But if you buy a Colt Thunderer made before 1898, which was only ever chambered in 41 Colt, you can rebarrel and rechamber it to 38 Special, and you're good to go. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot. And when you're done, you can probably sell it for $ 2500 to $ 5000.
Nitro
