Small single shot backpacking chicken gitter 20ga

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tommy88

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I'm looking at getting a light, short, packable 20ga single. I've been running with a Sinsinati 14inch 410 recently, and although I've brought quite a few grouse home, I still believe that the 410 is underpowered. After shots on a dozen birds, I've concluded that it simply does not penetrate breasts or feathers past 10meters. I have to rely on pellets in the head........ but I digress.

I seen on Irunguns that they sell Iver Johnson's and Midlands. Is one better then the other? Any other brand you guys would suggest? I want light, reliable and 14 to 18.5inch. Even youth models are fine.

Thanks for the look
 
tommy88 said:
I'm looking at getting a light, short, packable 20ga single. I've been running with a Sinsinati 14inch 410 recently, and although I've brought quite a few grouse home, I still believe that the 410 is underpowered. After shots on a dozen birds, I've concluded that it simply does not penetrate breasts or feathers past 10meters. I have to rely on pellets in the head........ but I digress.

I seen on Irunguns that they sell Iver Johnson's and Midlands. Is one better then the other? Any other brand you guys would suggest? I want light, reliable and 14 to 18.5inch. Even youth models are fine.

Thanks for the look
Click to expand...
You won’t gain any power only more shot going up to a 20, shot of equal size won’t penetrate any better with a 20, beyond 10 yards with a 410 your more likely to be missing completely or vitals with such little shot as opposed to not penetrating. The added payload will help with a bit more range though
 
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I like my .410 specifically because I use it to hit the head. I don't want to chew pellets. Maybe pattern your gun? You might be missing.

14" is pretty short. What choke?


Just re-read post. You are obviously hitting most, and it's just a range thing. I'm thinking too wide a pattern.
 
I've read a few tests on how barrel length relates to pattern, turns out doesn't matter all that much. My tests can confirm as well. The gun has a fixed full choke.
 
I suppose I should also mention that I have killed birds out to 25m with it. From those 12 birds I have shot at, only 2 flew away. One at 12m and one at 18. All of those birds were stationary, not flying. The head of a ruffed or spruce grouse is quite a small target. I have also patterned (on paper, and at different ranges) 3 different types ammo from challenger and winchester.
 
If you are blaming the penetration then you will not gain a thing moving to a larger gauge.

If you have a #6 pellet traveling at the same speed then it will have the same penetration.

410 velocity sits at 1400fps from a 3in load, 20ga 1210fps for a 2 3/4in load, so based on that the 410 should have more penetration than the 20ga.
 
tommy88 said:
I've read a few tests on how barrel length relates to pattern, turns out doesn't matter all that much. My tests can confirm as well. The gun has a fixed full choke.
Click to expand...

Exactly, barrel length will affect muzzle velocity and how the gun swings. Chokes have more impact on patterns, ammo brands in your gun will as well.

tommy88 said:
I suppose I should also mention that I have killed birds out to 25m with it. From those 12 birds I have shot at, only 2 flew away. One at 12m and one at 18. All of those birds were stationary, not flying. The head of a ruffed or spruce grouse is quite a small target. I have also patterned (on paper, and at different ranges) 3 different types ammo from challenger and winchester.
Click to expand...

You should be fine in those ranges with a full choke in a .410, I think getting used to head shooting is the key for you. Once you figure it out 100% it’s the way to go with ground swatting grouse or shooting stationary hares/rabbits, the less pellets in the meat the better.

My one buddy struggled for a season trying to successfully shoot grouse, his biggest issue was not really patterning his gun. The next season we were using one of mine that’s patterned and has rifle sights, it was night and day for him once I told him where the pattern was hitting. He’s been head shooting since then with ease. He’s gotten deadly with a .22/.410 combo gun he picked up last season, full choke as well. Smacks the grouse hard out to 25-30yds.
 
tommy88 said:
I'm looking at getting a light, short, packable 20ga single. I've been running with a Sinsinati 14inch 410 recently, and although I've brought quite a few grouse home, I still believe that the 410 is underpowered. After shots on a dozen birds, I've concluded that it simply does not penetrate breasts or feathers past 10meters. I have to rely on pellets in the head........ but I digress.

I seen on Irunguns that they sell Iver Johnson's and Midlands. Is one better then the other? Any other brand you guys would suggest? I want light, reliable and 14 to 18.5inch. Even youth models are fine.

Thanks for the look
Click to expand...



Muzzle velocity and shot size is what determines penetration, not gauge. A 410 load of #8 pellets at 1200 fps will penetrate the same as a 12 gauge load of #8's at 1200 fps. The bigger gauge will simply put more pellets on target than the smaller gauge.
 
You are missing the birds or have too sparse of a pattern. If fired at standard shotgun velocities, 1150-1300 fps, each pellet from a .410 is exactly the same as each pellet from a 28, 16, 12, or 10 ga.
 
If you're allowed to use a rim fire where you are that might be something to consider. I use my chiappa little badger and with a bushnell red dot it is deadly on grouse. Headshots up to 25y are no problem.
 
Are you referring to packable as being light and handy for all day hiking and shooting ruffies you come across...or
Packable, as you can stow it easily in your backpack and take it out as needed?

An old Cooey Model 84 fits both categories well, whether in .410, 28 ga or 20 ga. (I have the one of each of the first two, and they are a lot of fun!)
Light and handy for all day hunting, carried open over the crook of your arm, or your shoulder...and
Takes down in just a moment to stow in your pack, and taken out and reassembled in another moment when needed.

The longer length of barrel will shoot nice patterns for ruffies out to 35-40 yards.
 
Thank you guys for the responses. You have given me a bit to think about. Maybe I need to increase the pellet size or velocities. It's back to the drawing board to figure out how much gun I need.

BlackRam - I usually carry the gun in a tactical scabbard on the side of my day pack so I can pull it out quickly like Robin hood pulling out an arrow from his quiver. The longer barrels wouldn't fit in this carry method.

This would be more of a "light weight hiking" set up. If I'm actually hunting, I prefer a pump action
 
tommy88 said:
Thank you guys for the responses. You have given me a bit to think about. Maybe I need to increase the pellet size or velocities. It's back to the drawing board to figure out how much gun I need.

BlackRam - I usually carry the gun in a tactical scabbard on the side of my day pack so I can pull it out quickly like Robin hood pulling out an arrow from his quiver. The longer barrels wouldn't fit in this carry method.

This would be more of a "light weight hiking" set up. If I'm actually hunting, I prefer a pump action
Click to expand...

#6 seems to work well with the 410, #4 shot size has too loose a pattern in most 410s with a full choke.
 
BlackRam said:
Are you referring to packable as being light and handy for all day hiking and shooting ruffies you come across...or
Packable, as you can stow it easily in your backpack and take it out as needed?

An old Cooey Model 84 fits both categories well, whether in .410, 28 ga or 20 ga. (I have the one of each of the first two, and they are a lot of fun!)
Light and handy for all day hunting, carried open over the crook of your arm, or your shoulder...and
Takes down in just a moment to stow in your pack, and taken out and reassembled in another moment when needed.

The longer length of barrel will shoot nice patterns for ruffies out to 35-40 yards.
Click to expand...

Barrel length has nothing to do with patterns.
 
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