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Ganderite

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In the winter I only go to the range twice a week, so sometimes it take time before I get to shoot a given project.

I once bought several thousand 150 gr plated 308 bullets. They are a round nose shape. I was hoping they would make good short range plinkers. Something good for 100 yards.

A few years ago I tried them in a 30-30. I used a short cut version of 4198 and loaded a survey of 20 to 30 gr in 0.5 increments. 23.5 gr turned out to be the best load. I only have 3 rifles in that caliber (Marlin, M94 and a Savage pump). All were best with that load. That was a happy, but strange thing. Usually each gun has its own preference.

I subsequently used the 30-30 in a 100 yard match. It did well, except on the mover. Velocity was low and I needed a lot more lead than usual. I have not loaded for the 30-30 since, I did not Chrony it. I am guessing around 1800 fps.

I have very little experience with plated bullets. Used a few times in handguns, but these are the only plated rifle bullets I have every owned, loaded, shot. In the 30-30 test I found that the hotter loads were a disaster. I am guessing that the plated bullet has a speed limit.

Last week I was trying to fire form some Lapua 308 brass that I had accidently over sized. The case shoulders were set back 150 to 20 thou. The firing pin did not reach the primer on some cases. So I dug out the plated bullets (cheapest bullets I have in 308 - around $6.50/100) seated them real long, so that the case head was firm on the bolt face, and fire formed my brass.

I decided to use the opportunity to do some load development, too. I loaded 10 each in 23 to 32 gr. Turned out that 24 gr shot a nice group, and the hotter loads opened up real bad.

Delighted to find that I can probably develop a load for these bullets in a 308. As it happens, when I surveyed my powder bunker, I chose the same 4198 SC that I had used for the 30-30, so when I was making the log book entries, I discovered that both the 30-30 and the 308 used about 24 gr of the same powder. Logic says the 308 should have needed more, since it is a bigger case. maybe the bullet in the rifling raised pressures?

This got me thinking about my LeeEnfiled #1 sporter. It is a 308 barrel chambered with a 303Brit reamer. I intended it to be a fun plinker using 308 bullets, since I have lots of them (and not many 312 bullets).

So I loaded a survey of 21 to 26 gr of that 4198SC powder and the 150gr plated bullets. 24gr shot best.

I have never had 3 different calibers shoot best with the same load.

Although the plated bullet might shoot best at a certain velocity, the same powder charge in difference sized cases would produce different velocities.

Anyway, it was a good day. I got a plinker load for my 308Brit and the 3 223s I was sighting in all shot well under an inch.

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I'm of a fan of the scope as well. Envious you can go to the range so often. Really enjoy your posts Ganderite.

That scope is back on a AR-15. I have 20X scope on there now, for ammo testing, but when i am done, I will put a 2-7 Burris on there with super low rings.

As for going "often", twice a week is a big set back. I live on a farm and we have a 200 yard range in the back yard. It has a building, with ports, to shoot from. Heated in the winter. A/C in the summer. I used to shoot almost ever day, but neighbours have built close to the range. They have not really complained about shooting, but I keep center fire to a minimum, although my son shoots smallbore there very regularly.

The neighbour is a good one. He asked permission to hunt deer and turkeys on the property and I don't want to cause noise issues.
 
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Very interesting, thank you for sharing. I bought a 1000ct case of Berry's 150gr FN plated bullets after finding a nice shooting plinking load in my 336. I had planned to dabble with them in the 700P .308 to see if they will make a cheap practice load for more informal shooting, mainly offhand. I'll have to give 4198 a shot and see what happens. The .30-30 liked 9.0grs of red dot and I plan to work up to 13 grs in the 308. 9.0 was Lyman's max load for a 150 cast in the .30-30 and happened to shoot better than 7.0 and 8.0 grs. Sometimes these cheap plinking loads draw me in and I have as much fun as I do chasing accuracy with Bergers.
 
Very interesting, thank you for sharing. I bought a 1000ct case of Berry's 150gr FN plated bullets after finding a nice shooting plinking load in my 336. I had planned to dabble with them in the 700P .308 to see if they will make a cheap practice load for more informal shooting, mainly offhand. I'll have to give 4198 a shot and see what happens. The .30-30 liked 9.0grs of red dot and I plan to work up to 13 grs in the 308. 9.0 was Lyman's max load for a 150 cast in the .30-30 and happened to shoot better than 7.0 and 8.0 grs. Sometimes these cheap plinking loads draw me in and I have as much fun as I do chasing accuracy with Bergers.

... and a lot cheaper, too.
 
I think you have run in to the RPM Thery
You can use the formula:

(velocity in fps) X 720
----------------------- = spin in RPM
twist in inches

RPM……….120,000……….140,000

Twist……….FPS…………..FPS possible max velocity with cast ( not carved in stone)

7”…………1166…………..1361

8”………….1333…………..1555

9”………….1500…………..1750

10”………...1666…………..1944

11”………...1833…………..2139

12”…………2000………….2333

14”…………2333………….2722

16”…………2666………….3111

18”………….3000…………3500


Your 30-30 prob 1/12 twist

your 308 Prob 1/10 twist

303 ? 1/8 -1/10 -1/12 rebarrel job so hard to tell
 
Ganderite (with thanks for all your posts - always informative) when you say "loaded a survey", is .5 gr always your preferred weight stepping? Would you use a larger step ever? Smaller? And how many cartridges do you load for each step (3? 5?)

(Sorry if this detracts, I can move this out to a new "Dear Ganderite" thread if I get yelled at a lot :p)
 
I think you have run in to the RPM Thery
You can use the formula:

(velocity in fps) X 720
----------------------- = spin in RPM
twist in inches

RPM……….120,000……….140,000

Twist……….FPS…………..FPS possible max velocity with cast ( not carved in stone)

7”…………1166…………..1361

8”………….1333…………..1555

9”………….1500…………..1750

10”………...1666…………..1944

11”………...1833…………..2139

12”…………2000………….2333

14”…………2333………….2722

16”…………2666………….3111

18”………….3000…………3500


Your 30-30 prob 1/12 twist

your 308 Prob 1/10 twist

303 ? 1/8 -1/10 -1/12 rebarrel job so hard to tell

My 308Win is 1:10. The 308Brit is 1:14 Good point, maybe the speed limit is RPM, not fps.
 
Ganderite (with thanks for all your posts - always informative) when you say "loaded a survey", is .5 gr always your preferred weight stepping? Would you use a larger step ever? Smaller? And how many cartridges do you load for each step (3? 5?)

(Sorry if this detracts, I can move this out to a new "Dear Ganderite" thread if I get yelled at a lot :p)

The increment size depends on the situation. If I have just changed lot numbers of Varget, and the previous accuracy load was 46 gr, I might load 45.7 to 46.5 in 0.1 increments, looking for the best load.

If I am using a new powder with an unusual and unknown bullet (the plated 150 gr 308) I would first load a big increment, like a full grain, to survey everything, looking for the load range worth exploring. 24gr was the winner. Now I will load 23.7, 24 and 24.3 to see what I will use. I usually load 5 of each to start, because I am looking for the right area to fine tune. When doing the fine tuning, I would load 20 of each, and shoot a pair of 10 shot groups of each. I have had a lot of bad experiences with 5 shot groups where the fliers flew into the group, making it look good.

When I am testing a new pistol powder or a new pistol bullet, I laod 20 of each, in 0.3 gr increments, starting below the published Start load and working to to MAx. I am looking for a load that ill cycle reliably and produce the best accuracy. Usually one load will stand out.

Then I will load 100 of that, and 100 of 0.3 more and less and test in 10 or 20 other guns to note what each prefers. I often put a little sticker on the gun, reminding which load it likes.

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I re-shot the 308Win and the 308Brit yesterday, trying to fine-tune the load with the 150 gr plated bullets.

The accuracy load is only 1300 fps.

So it is not a RPM issue. I am guessing that the bullets are quite soft.

At 100 yards I can hear the bullet ht the berm. It takes that long to get there.

They are good plinkers up to 100 yards. I was hoping to use them at 100 yards in the Sporting Rifle shoot, which is shot standing. They would be ok for the deliberate and the Snap, but terrible on the mover. They would need a lot of lead.
 
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